Topic: Enhanced Interrogation and the "torture memos"

Redcell · June 8th, 2009

Ok so there is still some stuff about the enhanced interogation techniques
waterboarding, heavy metal, sleep deprivation ect if all of this gets intel that would save people, which it did, why does Obama get rid of it and then only release the interogation techniques and not the results?

The image that is gatherd is that obama is weakining National security while trying to put a bad name on the republicans by saying heres what bush allowed, and then holding back the results making it seem that there is no good coming from it.

How is this helping The USA? his job is not to slander the right its to help everybody and not ruin National security.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_187867.html so you can read the memos. this does nothing to help the US

the_13th_redneck · June 8th, 2009

Sometimes you can think of it this way.
More lives will be lost of we do not interrogate with those methods. But maybe that's the price we have to pay in order to justify ourselves as the good guys. Funny thing is, Jack Bauer also says this at the end of Season 7 of 24.

MontyB · June 8th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Sometimes you can think of it this way.
More lives will be lost of we do not interrogate with those methods. But maybe that's the price we have to pay in order to justify ourselves as the good guys. Funny thing is, Jack Bauer also says this at the end of Season 7 of 24.

I will see your Jack Bauer and raise you a Friedrich Nietzsche quote..."And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. " I am sorry as much as I have tried to understand the "if torture saves lives then it was worth it" argument it still does not sit well.

If you have to adopt the morals of your enemy in order to win then were the values you are defending really worth defending in the first place?

the_13th_redneck · June 8th, 2009

You misunderstood me.
What I meant was if we lose many more lives by foregoing the use of torture, maybe what we believe in is more important than saving a few more lives.

Rob Henderson · June 8th, 2009

President Obama blocks release of prison abuse photos

My views have already been discussed.

Redcell · June 9th, 2009

Sometimes you must sacrafice a little to save alot. What is worse torturing a group of terrorists or knowing theres a way to save thousands of people and not taking any action? you must choose the lesser evil right? and i dont belive that what we did to those men in gitmo qualifies as torture what they do to our marines is torture.

The action of releasing those memos only helped the other side, and the decision to stop using those methods took away a good way to get intel on what is going on in thier heads and insight into thier plans.

Rob Henderson · June 9th, 2009

Answer me this, Redcell, if you were being starved every day, and the little food you received was absolute CRAP, you were being "drowned" every day, and lived in a hole by yourself... Wouldn't you tell the person doing it to you anything you could to get out of it? Even... Say... A LIE? And before you answer, consider the fact that if you tell me you wouldn't lie and would only break to tell the truth, I'm going to discredit all future posts from you.

senojekips · June 9th, 2009

It's been admitted by US authorities that they are aware that torture doesn't work. Something that civilised societies have known for a century or more. It is merely a way for them to terrorise their prisoners and exact some sort of revenge.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/torture-...0514-b4t6.html

Those TV and "B" grade movie scenarios where information gained through torture save the day are just that,... Hollywood Bullsh!t.

A torture subject will tell his interrogators whatever he thinks they want to hear, to escape the torture. This is useless as more often than not it is only telling you what you already suspect irrespective of whether there is any truth in the matter.

Wallabies · June 9th, 2009

If you know the person has the information and the other forms of interrogation have not worked then I have no problem with torture.

Rob Henderson · June 9th, 2009

But what we're saying is that regardless of whether or not the person has the TRUE information, they will tell you anything they can to get you to stop torturing them... They would give you an address for Osama Bin Laden to stop you from some of the techniques we use, the problem is, there ISN'T an address for Bin Laden. They LIE to stop the torture.

June 8th, 2009	Post 1
Redcell Immunes Gear	Ok so there is still some stuff about the enhanced interogation techniques waterboarding, heavy metal, sleep deprivation ect if all of this gets intel that would save people, which it did, why does Obama get rid of it and then only release the interogation techniques and not the results? The image that is gatherd is that obama is weakining National security while trying to put a bad name on the republicans by saying heres what bush allowed, and then holding back the results making it seem that there is no good coming from it. How is this helping The USA? his job is not to slander the right its to help everybody and not ruin National security. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_187867.html so you can read the memos. this does nothing to help the US __________________ The Mind Is The Deadliest Weapon Ever Used By Man. Last edited by DTop; June 8th, 2009 at 10:55.. Reason: Back to back posts are not allowed, use the edit function.

June 8th, 2009	Post 2
the_13th_redneck Je suis aware Gear	Sometimes you can think of it this way. More lives will be lost of we do not interrogate with those methods. But maybe that's the price we have to pay in order to justify ourselves as the good guys. Funny thing is, Jack Bauer also says this at the end of Season 7 of 24. __________________ I sold my soul to the devil, and the price was cheap.

June 8th, 2009	Post 5
Rob Henderson Milforum Idol	President Obama blocks release of prison abuse photos My views have already been discussed. __________________ Sing ye to the Lord, for He hath triumphed gloriously! "If a composer could have said what he wanted to say in words, he wouldn't have needed to write the music." -Gustav Mahler.

June 9th, 2009	Post 8
senojekips Tribunus Laticlavius	It's been admitted by US authorities that they are aware that torture doesn't work. Something that civilised societies have known for a century or more. It is merely a way for them to terrorise their prisoners and exact some sort of revenge. http://www.smh.com.au/world/torture-...0514-b4t6.html Those TV and "B" grade movie scenarios where information gained through torture save the day are just that,... Hollywood Bullsh!t. A torture subject will tell his interrogators whatever he thinks they want to hear, to escape the torture. This is useless as more often than not it is only telling you what you already suspect irrespective of whether there is any truth in the matter. __________________ "Those with ulterior motives may tell you what you wish to hear, but a real friend tells you what you need to know" http://www.geocities.com/senojekips/Index.htm

June 8th, 2009	Post 4
the_13th_redneck Je suis aware Gear	You misunderstood me. What I meant was if we lose many more lives by foregoing the use of torture, maybe what we believe in is more important than saving a few more lives.

June 9th, 2009	Post 6
Redcell Immunes Gear	Sometimes you must sacrafice a little to save alot. What is worse torturing a group of terrorists or knowing theres a way to save thousands of people and not taking any action? you must choose the lesser evil right? and i dont belive that what we did to those men in gitmo qualifies as torture what they do to our marines is torture. The action of releasing those memos only helped the other side, and the decision to stop using those methods took away a good way to get intel on what is going on in thier heads and insight into thier plans.

June 9th, 2009	Post 7
Rob Henderson Milforum Idol	Answer me this, Redcell, if you were being starved every day, and the little food you received was absolute CRAP, you were being "drowned" every day, and lived in a hole by yourself... Wouldn't you tell the person doing it to you anything you could to get out of it? Even... Say... A LIE? And before you answer, consider the fact that if you tell me you wouldn't lie and would only break to tell the truth, I'm going to discredit all future posts from you.

June 9th, 2009	Post 9
Wallabies Centurion	If you know the person has the information and the other forms of interrogation have not worked then I have no problem with torture.

June 9th, 2009	Post 10
Rob Henderson Milforum Idol	But what we're saying is that regardless of whether or not the person has the TRUE information, they will tell you anything they can to get you to stop torturing them... They would give you an address for Osama Bin Laden to stop you from some of the techniques we use, the problem is, there ISN'T an address for Bin Laden. They LIE to stop the torture.