Topic: Enemy at the gates 3

MadeInChina · November 17th, 2004

it was shortage of men, not weapons

Pollux · November 17th, 2004

shortage of men?
in the red army?
lol

Hegario · November 17th, 2004

If there's one thing of which the Russians had no shortage of, it was manpower. For a large part of the war, the human-wave attack was their primary method. Just read Antony Beevors Stalingrad and you'll see.

For example, in the winter war the Soviets usually just rushed headlong into battle with battalion or regiment size units with direct frontal assaults. Naturally the results were more or less disastrous casualties.

godofthunder9010 · November 17th, 2004

Here's the biggest problem I'm seeing: Is it possible for a movie based on events on the Eastern Front to be successful?

Quote:

Total US Gross $51,396,781
Production Budget $85,000,000
Worldwide Gross $51,396,781

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2001/ENEMI.html

When a movie makes less money than it costs to make, its a failure. Lets compare that to a movie we've all heard of that tells an almost entirely American WW2 story: Saving Private Ryan.

Quote:

Total US Gross $216,335,085
Production Budget $65,000,000
Prints and Advertising Budget $25,000,000
Worldwide Gross $480,000,000

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/1998/SVPRI.html

Accurate or not, "Enemy At The Gates" is based on the Eastern Front -- the place where World War II was won or lost. What would it take to see an Eastern Front movie see a reasonable level of success at the box office? At the very least, making a profit?

Hegario · November 17th, 2004

Practically every movie makes profit if given enough time. It's good nowadays that we have dvd-sales and video sales to beef up the sales.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/business

That worldwide figure you mentioned must be wrong, because I saw this in the theater. :P

godofthunder9010 · November 17th, 2004

That was a quick search and the data is prolly out of date, but still ... Saving Private Ryan (a mostly american WW2 story) outsells Enemy at the Gates by a long, long shot. I dunno, maybe Spielburg and Hanks can team up to try making a successful Eastern Front movie or series.

MadeInChina · November 18th, 2004

it was a shortage of men, how can u transport the troops across the volga river without alot of incidents????

anyways, satalingrad was fought in defensenive most of the time as the russians learned *CHARGING does not work well in offensive.

Hegario · November 18th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndShockarmy

it was a shortage of men, how can u transport the troops across the volga river without alot of incidents????

That makes it a logistics issue instead of a manpower-issue. Let's put it this way.. The Soviets were still a nation of 180 million people and they were waging total war, meaning that even their women were mobilized to the Red Army. Lack of manpower was not an issue here,

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndShockarmy

anyways, satalingrad was fought in defensenive most of the time as the russians learned *CHARGING does not work well in offensive.

Well how do you attack if you don't charge then?

Sure there was some infiltration going on but usually every major offensive in WW2 was about a bunch of guys charging towards the enemy. Besides, even if you're on the defensive you still have to counter-attack.

MadeInChina · November 21st, 2004

first you call in the 4000 + guns from the other side of the volga to bombard german positions, then u use snipers and take out officers, then you attack with SUBMACHINEGUNS and GRENADES while taking cover

well, thats how a chinese soldier would fight anywas

ur right, russians do charge.... not taking cover.... veyr sad...

AussieNick · December 8th, 2004

Quote:

first you call in the 4000 + guns from the other side of the volga to bombard german positions, then u use snipers and take out officers, then you attack with SUBMACHINEGUNS and GRENADES while taking cover

well, thats how a chinese soldier would fight anywas

ur right, russians do charge.... not taking cover.... veyr sad...

Hmmmm, that tactic sounds great in theory, and I'm sure the Russian command thought about it long and hard. But due to the pressure of the situation there was little choice except for frontal assault.

Plus a lack of available artillery, lack of armour, lack of aircover.... all those kinds of useful things that would be needed to support your idea. So trying to flood an area with men is the most effective method to quickly take and hold ground.

November 17th, 2004	Post 21
MadeInChina Primus Pilus	it was shortage of men, not weapons __________________ A signature is a little text that can be added at the bottom of the posts you make. It\'s limited to 300 characters (size 7 to 12) on 5 line(s) and 1 image(s) with none larger than 100x500 pixels and for a maximum of 20Kb. In your text, no more than 100 characters without space too.

November 17th, 2004	Post 23
Hegario Optio	If there's one thing of which the Russians had no shortage of, it was manpower. For a large part of the war, the human-wave attack was their primary method. Just read Antony Beevors Stalingrad and you'll see. For example, in the winter war the Soviets usually just rushed headlong into battle with battalion or regiment size units with direct frontal assaults. Naturally the results were more or less disastrous casualties. __________________ \"Nobody respects a country with a poor army, but everybody respects a country with a good army. I raise my toast to the Finnish Army.\" J. Stalin 1948

November 17th, 2004	Post 22
Pollux Optio	shortage of men? in the red army? lol

November 17th, 2004	Post 25
Hegario Optio	Practically every movie makes profit if given enough time. It's good nowadays that we have dvd-sales and video sales to beef up the sales. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/business That worldwide figure you mentioned must be wrong, because I saw this in the theater. :P

November 17th, 2004	Post 26
godofthunder9010 Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	That was a quick search and the data is prolly out of date, but still ... Saving Private Ryan (a mostly american WW2 story) outsells Enemy at the Gates by a long, long shot. I dunno, maybe Spielburg and Hanks can team up to try making a successful Eastern Front movie or series.

November 18th, 2004	Post 27
MadeInChina Primus Pilus	it was a shortage of men, how can u transport the troops across the volga river without alot of incidents???? anyways, satalingrad was fought in defensenive most of the time as the russians learned *CHARGING does not work well in offensive.

November 21st, 2004	Post 29
MadeInChina Primus Pilus	first you call in the 4000 + guns from the other side of the volga to bombard german positions, then u use snipers and take out officers, then you attack with SUBMACHINEGUNS and GRENADES while taking cover well, thats how a chinese soldier would fight anywas ur right, russians do charge.... not taking cover.... veyr sad...