McCain: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...7EA83F11D8.htm
Obama: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Discuss.

Obama and Biden seem the sensible choice.

Originally Posted by errol

Obama and Biden seem the sensible choice.

I find this category rather confusing as I agree with the Obama/Biden logic but I am not sure I agree with their solution and then on the other hand I don't agree with McCains argument yet I lean towards his solution.

Obama is right in my opinion that the Iraqi's themselves have shown a great reluctance to take control for themselves and giving them a date to get their act together or face the mess alone makes sense yet the thought of just saying "well we are done catch ya later" and going home I don't think is the right approach any departure from Iraq has to be carefully managed and done at a time that the insurgency is weakened enough for the Iraqi's to take over effectively.

The problem I see with McCain is that he seems to have forgotten that the Iraqi's have a say in this and if the US starts to agrivate the Iraqi government no matter how weak it may be now in the long term it will assume control and probably wont be the shining pro-American beacon he is hoping for, Arabs seem to have very long memories for people that upset them. Yet his solution (aka we have to finish the job is the right one).

And this is where we should take the best from both worlds. We need to remember that the Iraqis will eventually have to run their own country, but until then, we CANNOT leave them to their own devices. We have to respect them, but only when they are ready for our respect. With respect comes responsibility. They have to uphold their reputation as WILLING to run their own government before we can allow them the freedom to do so.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

And this is where we should take the best from both worlds. We need to remember that the Iraqis will eventually have to run their own country, but until then, we CANNOT leave them to their own devices. We have to respect them, but only when they are ready for our respect. With respect comes responsibility. They have to uphold their reputation as WILLING to run their own government before we can allow them the freedom to do so.

Do you honestly think it is right to tell a sovereign people they are not allowed to run their own government in their own country?

The US has to respect other nations as well. Iraq is a nation, recognized by most countries in the world. Its not a US state, and not just a US military base. If they asked us to leave, we would most likely leave. Why? Because its their country.

What you wrote up there is a occupation. Our job is not to occupy other countries and dictate when they are "allowed" freedom.

So we should get out? And tell me, what happens to Iraq once the only stable factor (the US) is gone? Do we just watch it burn to the ground?

No there needs to be a time table. Or at least a plan to turn the running of Iraq over to Iraqi's. We can't just say "Take your time." they need a base line. They need to understand that we won't prop up an ineffectual goverment forever.

Eventually we have to leave and we need a plan to leave and a solid plan to draw down. We need to inform the Iraqi's of that plan and stick to it. We need to help with the security and rebuilding of the infrastructure, but they need to take an increasing interest in their own future and increasing interest in self governing themselves in all that entails.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

No there needs to be a time table. Or at least a plan to turn the running of Iraq over to Iraqi's. We can't just say "Take your time." they need a base line. They need to understand that we won't prop up an ineffectual goverment forever.

Eventually we have to leave and we need a plan to leave and a solid plan to draw down. We need to inform the Iraqi's of that plan and stick to it. We need to help with the security and rebuilding of the infrastructure, but they need to take an increasing interest in their own future and increasing interest in self governing themselves in all that entails.

Agreed. That's why I said take the best of both worlds. We need to tell them that we WILL NOT be there forever. We WILL leave Iraq eventually. But we cannot simply withdraw. We can't just LEAVE them. We have to leave slowly, surely, and confidently. We need to be sure that a good governement has a fighting chance.

In order to get them to believe it. You need to tell them "Look on such and such date such and such Brigade is withdrawing from Province X.You need to take responsibilty there." And then do it.

That's what we haven't been doing. We've let them drag their feet. We need to stop.

I agree. We need a scheduled withdrawal. We cannot stay there forever, but we can't just up and leave all at once.