September 10th, 2008
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
So we should get out? And tell me, what happens to Iraq once the only stable factor (the US) is gone? Do we just watch it burn to the ground?
When the alternative ends much like the Sovet war in Afghanistan, I'd say that we have no other real alternative. Either get out of the burning building or go up with it...
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Yes, that makes a lot of sense, but why haven't we done so? Why haven't we set a time table? Is it a failure of the Bush administration? A failure of the military, a lack of international agreement on the exact prosal? Are we lingering in Iraq because we don't know what to do with Iran? Are we afraid that it may split into 3 regions and another war might erupt? Are we still there because by being there we make money, or at least off set some of the earlier expenses? Are we there because we don't trust the Iraqis, think they're just incapable of running a democratic, modern state? Are we afraid that it might get influenced by religious extremists and become a safe heaven for the terrorists of the future?
I'd say yes to all.
Originally Posted by Damien435
Since Iraq is well on its way towards governing itself I would say Obama's stance is outdated, he is arguing how to handle a pre-surge Iraq and ignoring the changes that have taken place since then. Ask someone who was in country before and after the surge, they will tell you that Iraq is far better off today than it was 2 years ago, Iraqi's themselves are in charge of 70% of the country today with the US presence ranging from non-existant to heavy support. Even the AP has reported that Iraq tody is far difference than it was 18-24 months ago. As I said before, Obama is treating Iraq as if it were still 2006. McCain was right about the Surge, he is applying the lessons learned from Vietnam to Iraq, something which nobody else in government has done at any step in the war so far.
The surge is overrated. Yes, it reduced violence in and around major cities, but there are still towns and cities which have been deemed too dangerous to enter that we don't even go near. We can't hold this country down forever.
I'm the bleeding heart liberal your mother warned you about.