Originally Posted by Wallabies

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF02.htm

Rather than giving us a link and hoping we will make your argument for you how about giving us your opinions and ideas and something to debate against?

This is why people are often misinformed, they have little or no personal knowledge of the matter. Their arguments are based on what they have "read", often compiled by paid researchers who, as we know, will always find data that panders to expectations of those paying for the "research".

79% of the victims were shot with lawfully held firearms (185 of 233 victims)

86% of these mass shooting (12 of 14) were committed by lawful gun owners

In 7 of the most deadliest massacres from 1966-2002 the murderer legally held a firearm without a license, in addition 3 of the cases the persons were respected members of pistol clubs. 7 out of 14 of the deadliest massacres in the west with firearms have occured in your very own country of the US. All of the shootings also occured in the south, where gun culture is most prevalent.

In a study of 65 high-profile multiple-victim shootings in the United States during 40 years, 62% of handgun shootings and 71% of long gun shootings were committed with legally acquired firearms, Violence Policy Center, 2001

Nearly 3/4 of all "long gun" shootings the weapons were legally owned.

While I agree not all gun owning members are irresponsible will it not hurt to give up your past time so that lives may be saved. You claim you have them to protect yourselves and your families yet more people die from legally owned weapons than illegal ones.

Originally Posted by Wallabies

While I agree not all gun owning members are irresponsible will it not hurt to give up your past time so that lives may be saved. You claim you have them to protect yourselves and your families yet more people die from legally owned weapons than illegal ones.

I take it then that you are in favour of banning any recreational activity that may kill others?

I hate to keep coming back to the Motor vehicle analogy, but there is no denying that they kill far more people than guns ever did. In fact, I'll bet you a months wages that more people are killed in, and by motor vehicles being used for purely recreational purposes than were ever killed by firearms.

As for the second part regarding legally owned firearms, once again the same goes for motor vehicles, most persons are also killed by legally owned motor vehicles, so really, that has nothing to do with it.

If a man is killed by a firearm the media and anti gun lobby go into mad hysteria, some kid kills three of his mates and puts two other persons into hospital after slamming a his car into another vehicle whilst doing 100 MPH and that is just a "road tragedy".

For Christ's sakes let go of yourself man, admit it, You just don't like firearms, therefore you don't care about the pleasure and recreation of others and are determined to see it stopped.

I carried one for 3 months last year and in less than a month will start carrying one that will never leave my side for half a year. Like you all say, 'guns don't kill people, people kill people', which just screams gun control because at the moment laws are so lax that nearly anyone can get a legal firearm in the US.

Automobiles are in the need category, civilians with firearms are in the want category. Find another analogy in the want category.

If a man is killed by a firearm the media and anti gun lobby go into mad hysteria, some kid kills three of his mates and puts two other persons into hospital after slamming a his car into another vehicle whilst doing 100 MPH and that is just a "road tragedy".

He broke the law doing 100mph, speakers go out to high schools talking about the dangers of speeding, etc. Do speakers go out and talk about the dangers of firearms? You admire those educating young people on the dangers of driving yet condemn those who educate them about the danger of firearms.

You don't need a car. You have public transportation.

What if I passed laws that would require you to turn in your car because it pollutes the environment? It would be illegal for you to own or drive a car. By law you would have to ride the bus with other folks.

What would you say to that?

So by you saying that firearms are a want and not a need. You are saying that people ahve no legal right to self defense. So I take it that self defense is a want and not a need. Because under your logic, it's a want and not a need.

You cannot depend on the police to protect you. If that was the case, murders, crime, rape, burglaries, auto theft, and other crime wouldn't occur.

As a police officer, I cannot be your personal body guard 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a years. It just cannot be done. There are not that many officers in the world to do that. So what are you going to do?

Are you going to roll over and play dead when some crack head breaks into your house at 3am and holds a knife to your wife or kids and demands that you give into his demands or they die. Or are you going to stop dead scumbag and protect your loved ones.

It takes about 3 minutes for the police to respond. A lot of things can happen in 3 minutes.

Some say for recreation, some say for self defence. When someone breaks in will you have to time to grab the keys, run out back, open the safe, get the weapon, then run back in and get the bullets? I highly doubt it. Public transportation can not handle the entire population.

He broke the law doing 100mph, speakers go out to high schools talking about the dangers of speeding, etc. Do speakers go out and talk about the dangers of firearms? You admire those educating young people on the dangers of driving yet condemn those who educate them about the danger of firearms.

I never mentioned one word condemning anyone other than the media and anti gun lobby's irrational hysteria towards firearms offences compared with their mute acceptance of road deaths.

So, what's your answer regarding those killed by recreational drivers? Do you still think that any recreational activity that kills persons should be banned as you suggest

will it not hurt to give up your past time so that lives may be saved.

Especially a pastime that kills probably in excess of 100X the number ever killed with firearms. What was your state's road toll last year?

And, Yes, police and others do go and educate the public on firearms safety as they do on many other things household security etc. I have no beef about firearms safety, just irrational disinformation being spread by ill informed persons such as yourself.

Accident versus homicide seno.

No, they certainly aren't accidents, in nearly every case it is recklessness and stupidity often coupled with excessive alcohol consumption. Last year in this state 63% of road deaths were connected to alcohol in some way and an even greater percentage involved reckless driving.

They are NOT accidents. It is stupidity, and the law will back me on that when they get these people into court, so long as they never killed themselves also.

No.... Not accidents.

So are we still going to ban recreational driving? You seem so keen to save lives.

will it not hurt to give up your past time so that lives may be saved.

So long as it doesn't affect you.

Some say for recreation, some say for self defence. When someone breaks in will you have to time to grab the keys, run out back, open the safe, get the weapon, then run back in and get the bullets? I highly doubt it. Public transportation can not handle the entire population.

So now you are changing sides? Advocating that firearms should not have to be locked away where they can't be reached when needed in a hurry. Perhaps your first reasonable agument. Unfortunately I think that this was not your intention, but you just shot yourself in the foot (so to speak).

As I said in another post, Why don't you just admit that you are a self centred bigot with an irrational fear of firearms who because they are not your pleasure and enjoyment want to see them banned not only in our country but in other sovereign states as well. You have not been able to offer one supportable argument on three different threads regarding this matter.