I am curious about your opinions about the folowing:

The dutch government had to cut-down on alot of ministeries. Including the ministery of defense. As a result the dutch navy had to sell the Orion's. They were the eyes and ears of the dutch navy. The submarine service wasn't touched, yet. A lot of people fear that the next time the submarine service wont be that lucky.

My opinion, that would be stupid. The submarines can't be missed when it commes to naval INTEL, dropping special forces and they are quite good when it comes to warfare. Example:

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_walrus2.htm

23 Feb - 2 Mar 1999: Walrus (2) participates, among other NATO navies and the Brazilian navy, in the exercise JTFEX / TMDI99.

JTFEX / TMDI99 stands for Joint Task Force Exercise / Theatre Missile Defence Initiative 1999. The exercise is held in the Caribbean and on the US main land and has 27000 participants, of which 15000 naval participants. This exercise is the biggest gathering of forces since the Gulf-war, is held from 1 Feb to 4 Mar 1999.

The T-shirt that was designed by the Walrus (2) crew to celebrate the 'sinking' of US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt. (see below)

During this exercise the Walrus (2) penetrates the US screen and 'sinks' many ships, including the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T-shirt. Other ships that are sunk by the Walrus (2) during this exercise are: USS Boise SSN-764, Ro?m DDG-70, R? DDG-61, Ville De Quebec FFH/FFG-332, Stephen W. Grooves FFG-29, Holstein F-216, Vella Gulf CG-55, Mount Whitney LCC-20

And finally, the dutch sub-service provides one of the best and most difficult sub-commander courses. This course is being followed by sub-officers from countries like Australia, Norway, Israel and the US.

The submarine service isn't just crucial for the dutch navy, it also has some meaning for other countries, as it's expertise is oftenly used and requested by Dutch allies

The picture:

I might like the graphic better if that wasn't USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) the walrus is smashing his tusks through.

The truth is that lumbering Aircraft Carriers are very vulnerable to Submarine attack if not detected early enough to counter or to eliminate the threat OR escorted by nearby warships.

If the submarine will plague the surface fleets, then anti-Submarine warfare will become more complicated, complex, and developed in the near future.

And also, the graphic will definetily bust the ego and pride of the US Navy.

Ever serve on an aircraft carrier? Have any idea what their defenses are? No, I didn't think so. One of my closest friends flew off of USS America for quite awhile. Subs may get through it's true, but as to being "very vulnerable" you're talking out of your hat.

Actually, I think you're looking more into the technical side. Yes, these Carriers do have a fearsome array of defenses but,

Most of the US Navy's striking power comes from the Carrier itself. If there is a chance that a carrier is sunk, it can seriously handicap the entire fleet. And if you look into the Soviet Union's doctrines, a US Carrier is the most valued target. Protecting the carrier is the most important.

The fact that it's the "most valuable target" just proves my point. You don't make something a valuable target unless it's very capable.

How does a picture of a walrus biting a carrier bust the pride of the U.S. navy? Do you really think our admirals are sitting in a room right now going, "Oh crap guys, did you see that picture? We're F*ing doomed! Game over man, game over!"

Originally Posted by Cabal

The truth is that lumbering Aircraft Carriers are very vulnerable to Submarine attack if not detected early enough to counter or to eliminate the threat OR escorted by nearby warships.

(CUT)

And also, the graphic will definetily bust the ego and pride of the US Navy.

That "lumbering" aircraft carrier can hit up to 40 knots when the conditions are right and it's in a hurry; 30 knots on a regular day. That's hardly "lumbering". Besides, the "ego" and "pride" of the Navy is well founded-when was the last time we lost a ship to actual combat?

Originally Posted by c/LtCdr

That "lumbering" aircraft carrier can hit up to 40 knots when the conditions are right and it's in a hurry; 30 knots on a regular day. That's hardly "lumbering". Besides, the "ego" and "pride" of the Navy is well founded-when was the last time we lost a ship to actual combat?

40 knots is impressive for a carrier, but the carrier is a very large warship that cannot menauvaur fast enough to evade incoming torpedoes without the aide of ECMs. However, another major threat to surface fleets is low altitude skimming anti-ship missiles such as the French Excecot and the Russian Sunburn.

However, I think we're getting a bit off topic here. I believe we're supposed to discuss Dutch Submarines, not Sub vs. Aircraft Carrier.

How does a picture of a walrus biting a carrier bust the pride of the U.S. navy? Do you really think our admirals are sitting in a room right now going, "Oh crap guys, did you see that picture? We're F*ing doomed! Game over man, game over!"

I have no intentions to belittle your Navy. I see you Americans are very proud of your Navy and I apologize if I have insulted you. However, I am expecting you to show the same respect to others as well.