Originally Posted by Irishone

Devildog if you cant understand the concept of its dangers to other people then think of yourself.

Pot has links to lung, neck, throat, breast and early bladder cancers. Ironic isnt it...cancer patients smoke pot.

I'm pretty sure its the actual smoke that causes that. And if you eat it or use a water pipe. You should be fine.

Pot can cause severe Bronchitis...which by the way can stop you from getting into the Military.

Once again its the actual smoke not the "pot" as you put it.

Pot causes munchies, which in turn could make you gain weight. Unhealthy body...which again can stop you getting into the military.

It also speeds up your metabolism tremendously. That's what causes the munchies. Honestly, I've never seen a fat stoner. Ever. And either way I'm underweight as it is.

Pot is not addictive this is true. But 10% of the population have addictive personalities...how do you know for a fact your not one of that 10%?

I've never been addicted to anything ever. But, thats besides the point.

Pot is said to be a sexual stimulant, so maybe this is one of your reasoning who knows. But in the long run Pot can either lower or completely ruin a man or womans sex drive. I assume you want to have sex in your 30's and 40's?! Men reach there sexual peak at 19 (so they say)..so you gotta hang on to what you got!

Never heard of it hurting you in the long run. Source?

This is just a few 'minor' things that can happen. But you want to join the military right?

As much as I'd like to, my dad is terminally ill and I need to be with my mom to help her out in taking care of him.

Do you do sports at school? Well if you fail a drugs test...your off the team. If your on a scholarship to university and you fail a drugs test you lose the scholarship.Maybe your getting the point now...

I'm on the debate team and was on the chess team last semester (quit because It was scaring away all the chicks :P). I wasnt aware you had to take a drug test to go to school. But if you do I can more than easily stop.

If your not going to think of the dangers to others [I wouldnt like a stoned doctor(cos he was stressed and needed to chill) working on me if I'd just been hit by a car which had you driving it, and you didnt see me cos you were stoned and the bright lights of the stop sign was just 'so bright and sparkly']....which there is....be purely selfish and do it for yourself.

Honestly, what makes you think I'm stupid enough to drive while stoned! I dont even like driving when I'm not. I'd be way too scared if I was. But thats besides the point...

You cant equate smoking a joint for 'chilling' reasons(aka getting baked off your face) with smoking a joint because you have cancer.
Maybe I'm been harsh, but I dont think you understand the true effects it can have on your life.

Those were my arguements to get it legalized, which was the point of this thread, but it turned into a "omg pot killz brain cells!!11!"type of deal.

In closing I'd like to say, its a plant, get over it.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but "You're right, mmarsh." This issue is hardly black and white, yet both sides gravitate to extremes. So far the "father knows best" extreme is winning in the real world. Odd how pot has been banned, yet alcohol and tobacco have not. Tobacco has been linked to all sorts of cancers. Alcohol is a root of many of the aforementioned social issues.

Another interesting observation I've made in this thread is that both sides have spouted all manner of "facts," yet FDD is the only one who has actually sited his information. Are the rest of you folks doctors? Doesn't this forum require that information beyond the ken of us laymen be sourced?

As far as my own personally opinion; the only substance mentioned here that I ever use is alcohol and that in extreme moderation. I have used pot in the past. I didn't like it so I quit. I have used tobacco in the past. I didn't like the effects it had on me so I quit. By the logic of some here, that means that I should be violently opposed to anyone else using the products I no longer use. I tend to think of myself as more logical than that. Personal responsibility rears its ugly head here. I really don't care one way or the other what substances you put in your body. It's your choice and neither the government nor I (should) have any say in it. Should you negatively effect someone else while imbibing in the drug of your choice, you will pay the same price as everyone else. Simply, enforce the law. By that same token, if the laws in the US were enforced as they should be, drunk driving would not be the problem that it currently is.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

I'm talking about smoking it.

Don't you remeber the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of life? God put the tree of life in the Garden of Eden yet forbade Adam and Eve from eating from it.

Comparing a god to man/government; kind of full of ourselves; are we?

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

Marijuana is not food and doesn't have any nourishment value.

It's nutritional value exceeds soy on [almost] all variables.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

Because you are not in control of your body. And I don't know about you but I want to be in control of my body at all times.

Untrue; you are in total control of your body. THC acts on the cannabinoid receptors in your brain; releasing dopamine. It can affect short-term memory if used excesively (that's abusing; not using recreationally) and increase your appetite ten-fold; You are still in control of everything; except maybe emptying the cupboards. And besides which; quite frankly; you are NEVER in total control of your own body. Personally; when I get really mad at someone I blank out because of all the adrenaline pumping. Sometimes I can't stop myself from laughing for up to half an hour at a funny joke. Marijuana is a depressant and psychedellic; not a sedative or deleriant. Big difference.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

But when your brain isn't functioning like it normally would, the same rationale doesn't go into your decision making. No matter what way you put it, your brain doesn't function right when you are high.

This is an opinion; not a fact. The difference between right and wrong on any aspect can be argued. Just because it doesn't function normally; does not mean it is functioning wrongfully. How are we to say that sober is normal and being high is not? You cannot argue that the human race's survival is/was based on change; who says it has to be on a global level and not a personal level?

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

That's false. Marijuana alters the blood flow to the Prefrontal Cortex which affects your judgment and ability to make decisions.

Source?

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

You contradict yourself. And if you think Marijuana doesn't have any side effects, you are wrong. Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. Not to mention the 400 known chemicals marijuana contains. It doesn't seem "non-toxic" at all.

Again; source? Agents that are cancer-causing names? Don't get me wrong on this one; ALL burning plant matter is carcinogenic; marijuana included. Your statement is retarded without a source. Just because the smokers choose to hold the smoke in longer; doesn't make marjiuana smoke more carinogenic than tobacco. Have you ever heard of nicotine?

And besides; if marijuana were legal; it is fair to say it would be much cheaper because it would be grown on a gigantic scale. This would mean that marijuana users can eat it; getting full nutrtional value and not worry about wasting any of their money because of cost. It generally takes more marijuana to get you high orally than smoked.

Yes; it has 400 chemicals. Big whoop. Chemical is a loose word when drugs and propoganda are involved. Just because it's a chemical; does not make it dangerous. Oxygen is a chemical.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

Marijuana can be addictive, can affect physical health, and can affect mental health. It's a fact. You need to get your facts straight and get your information from a trusted source.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/ResearchRepo...a/default.html

Nida is a biased source; it is one-sided and full of propoganda. Try www.erowid.org . Completely unbiased. If there is something wrong with drug in question; it will say. If there is something good about drug in question; it will say.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

There is no such thing as a victimless crime. You remember that.

But there is such a thing as immoral laws. If someone grows his own marijuana in the privacy of his own home; harvests and smokes it himself; where is the crime? It's like the same guy growing his own tomatoes and having a tasty snack with some dressing on the side? I fail to see the difference.

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

When that guy decides to go out for a drive and kills a couple innocent people.

In my experience; drivers than smoke marijuana genreally drive slower and are more alert to everything than sober drivers. It is highly more likely for someone talking on their cellphone; or someone eating a burito to have an accident than someone who has smoked marijuana.

Originally Posted by Irishone

Devildog if you cant understand the concept of its dangers to other people then think of yourself.

Pot has links to lung, neck, throat, breast and early bladder cancers. Ironic isnt it...cancer patients smoke pot.
Pot can cause severe Bronchitis...which by the way can stop you from getting into the Military.
Pot causes munchies, which in turn could make you gain weight. Unhealthy body...which again can stop you getting into the military.
Pot is not addictive this is true. But 10% of the population have addictive personalities...how do you know for a fact your not one of that 10%?
Pot is said to be a sexual stimulant, so maybe this is one of your reasoning who knows. But in the long run Pot can either lower or completely ruin a man or womans sex drive. I assume you want to have sex in your 30's and 40's?! Men reach there sexual peak at 19 (so they say)..so you gotta hang on to what you got!
This is just a few 'minor' things that can happen. But you want to join the military right? You know it can take between 3-90 days for it to clear your system right. So are you goina plan your interviews and tests around your last joint? So night before your pt are going to have a joint to 'chill'.
Even if you dont go military. In most jobs nowerdays you have to do a medical and that includes blood tests.You've heard of these right? Well if you fail one you dont get the job. End of story. Do you do sports at school? Well if you fail a drugs test...your off the team. If your on a scholarship to university and you fail a drugs test you lose the scholarship.Maybe your getting the point now...

If your not going to think of the dangers to others [I wouldnt like a stoned doctor(cos he was stressed and needed to chill) working on me if I'd just been hit by a car which had you driving it, and you didnt see me cos you were stoned and the bright lights of the stop sign was just 'so bright and sparkly']....which there is....be purely selfish and do it for yourself.

You cant equate smoking a joint for 'chilling' reasons(aka getting baked off your face) with smoking a joint because you have cancer.
Maybe I'm been harsh, but I dont think you understand the true effects it can have on your life.

Very good points with actual reasoning behind them. Good job. The sexual stimulant is a myth though; in the late 50's and 60's they used to say that marijuana made you a sex fiend. Untrue. When I used to smoke marijuana it made me loose out on a lot of pussy. I do not smoke anymore; I haven't smoked for months.

A stoned doctor? No; I wouldn't want to see one either. But if my doctor chooses to go home after a long days work and smoke a bowl with his wife; all the power to him. If he does it in the privacy of his own home and not around the work area I don't have a problem with it.

Munchies are hell. But; if done properly; you can eat a bunch of healthy foods; as opposed to sugary and fatty treats. This is hard to do without practice.

Originally Posted by sunb!

Addiction is a disease and any disease tears away at the mind and body of the sufferer.

A danger not mentioned in this thread as I can see is the one on the emotional level of the individual. The feeling of isolation, depression and increase in anxiety are just a few but allow me to mention further self-esteem problems and self-reinforcement abilities deterorate, confidence diminishes. The same can be seen on long term alcoholism and is not therefore unique to one specific drug.

No matter what drug/stimulant you use; you will in one way or the other end up with severe problems with job, money, family and friends.

I disagree with the first paragraph because marijuana isn't addicting so much as it is a habbit. There IS a difference. Making puzzles is a habbit; not being able to stop eating chocolate is an addiction.

The second paragraph I agree with for the most-part. It can lead to anxiety problems. Although; you are way out in left field on the alcoholism. Alcohol is Physically and mentally addicting. You can withdrawal. Alcohol has potention to become addictive; more than a habbit.

I disagree with the last paragraph. Why? Because I'm living proof that it is false.


To end; I don't smoke marijuana; but I used to. I am not closed minded on either side of the debate; as there are pros and cons on every subject; including marijuana. I chose to side with dog; one; because he asked me to; and two; because I've noticed that some of you are very closed minded and ignorant on the subject. Hope I helped.

-Tweek

Where do you have the nerve to ask me for sources when you didn't cite any sources yourself? Va fa napoli!

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

Va fa napoli!

Naples goes ago?

And he did post one of the biggest sources for unbiased drug information.

www.erowid.org

Originally Posted by Tweek

It can affect short-term memory if used excesively (that's abusing; not using recreationally) and increase your appetite ten-fold; You are still in control of everything; except maybe emptying the cupboards.

Short term memory such as recognizing railroad crossing, yield, stop, on ramp, and one way signs?

Originally Posted by Tweek

How are we to say that sober is normal and being high is not? You cannot argue that the human race's survival is/was based on change; who says it has to be on a global level and not a personal level?

Were you sober or high when you were born?

Originally Posted by Tweek

Chemical is a loose word when drugs and propoganda are involved. Just because it's a chemical; does not make it dangerous. Oxygen is a chemical.

The last time I looked, Oxygen was an element, not a chemical. Chemicals are substances with a distinct molecular composition that is produced by or used in a chemical process. That's what happens when you smoke weed instead of study your lessons.

Originally Posted by Tweek

It's like the same guy growing his own tomatoes and having a tasty snack with some dressing on the side? I fail to see the difference.

One is a food and the other is a mind altering drug. Tomatoes won't get you thrown in jail for DUI.

Originally Posted by Tweek

Very good points with actual reasoning behind them. Good job. The sexual stimulant is a myth though; in the late 50's and 60's they used to say that marijuana made you a sex fiend. Untrue. When I used to smoke marijuana it made me loose out on a lot of . I do not smoke anymore; I haven't smoked for months.

Haven't smoked for months? How many months? Do you want a high now or have you thought about using dope, yep, it's dope, when something brings you down? When you say you used to smoke dope, I think of years
and when you say months, I think recently.

I'm thinking you are a heavy user, I hope I'm wrong, by the way you defend using so vehemently. Ask yourself a question, has smoking dope ever caused a problem in my life with friends, Parents, or at school? If so, you have a mean old problem and researching web sites and getting affirmation from people who are users is the wrong approach.

Originally Posted by Missileer

Short term memory such as recognizing railroad crossing, yield, stop, on ramp, and one way signs?

No. You are an idiot for thinking these things are involved with short term memory.

Do not call people names, especially a Mod.


Were you sober or high when you were born?
[/quote]

I am going to have to say sober; but I am not the same person I was when I was born. I matured and formed opinions. This question you've asked is a very rhetorical and biased one. Did you eat dijon mustard when you were born? Do you now?

The last time I looked, Oxygen was an element, not a chemical. Chemicals are substances with a distinct molecular composition that is produced by or used in a chemical process. That's what happens when you smoke weed instead of study your lessons.

When I did smoke weed; I would smoke; then study my lessons. Elements are chemicals. I used oxygen as an example because oxygen cannot be found alone in nature (that I know of); it has to go through a process to be purified. If you prefer I'll change it. Water is a chemical. H20.

One is a food and the other is a mind altering drug. Tomatoes won't get you thrown in jail for DUI.

That's one of the points of this discussion; isn't it? If marijuana was legal; it wouldn't get reeferheads thrown in jail. As for your first sentence in the quote above; EVERYTHING you put in or do to your body alters your mind and body in some way; why should thc be outlawed because it releases dopamine?

Haven't smoked for months? How many months? Do you want a high now or have you thought about using dope, yep, it's dope, when something brings you down? When you say you used to smoke dope, I think of years
and when you say months, I think recently.

No; I haven't thought about using it; I don't like the high anymore; I got sick of it. But just because I don't smoke it doesn't mean I care if other people smoke and/or eat it. I haven't smoked marijuana for almost a year.. 8-9 months maybe? I couldn't really tell you the last time I smoked because it wasn't that big of a deal; didn't change my life so much that I had to remember the day I stopped.

I'm thinking you are a heavy user, I hope I'm wrong, by the way you defend using so vehemently. Ask yourself a question, has smoking dope ever caused a problem in my life with friends, Parents, or at school? If so, you have a mean old problem and researching web sites and getting affirmation from people who are users is the wrong approach.

You don't know me; keep your opinions about me to yourself; this isn't a debate about me. But; like I've stated SEVERAL times; I do NOT smoke; heavily; or even a little bit. I don't smoke. Period. And; about the only time it has ever caused a problem for me was when I got suspended for having a few bongs in my locker at school when I was in grade eight or nine. Wasn't that big of a problem; more like a vacation. No record for it; just a few days off of school. Another problem was getting searched hundreds of times at school without reason; giving me a bad name to the teachers and parents of my classmates; and some broken items in my locker; and missing money that the guards stole from me.


One source:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...67&q=marijuana

Originally Posted by Tweek

No. You are an idiot for thinking these things are involved with short term memory.

Do not call people names, especially a Mod.

Sorry; but the fact still stands that remembering road signs aren't assosiated with short term memory.

Originally Posted by Tweek

I disagree with the last paragraph. Why? Because I'm living proof that it is false.

-Tweek

Regarding my last paragraph, Tweek; I base it on the experience of living and working close with long term drug users (heroin, amphetamines, weed and alchohol), their statements and personal stories of how their life changed in one or two years since they were introduced to drugs.

Feel free to overrule it, but I will never change my opinion.

Originally Posted by FutureDevilDog

Hey thanks for pointing out your ever so subtle sarcasm. I'm far too deep into my cannabis induced psychosis to notice things like that. I would've never known you were staunchy anti-drugs.

I'd also like to know why there are cannabinoid receptors in the brain? Surely they wouldnt be there for no reason.

BTW is there any evidence of this cannabis induced psychosis? And as if anyone that uses marijuana is on wellfare and blows all his money on drugs. Congratualations, you conform to the typical stereotype of an uneducated prohibitionist.

Abuse is no argument against proper use.

Careful there youngster, it isn't a good idea to call a university graduate and an army officer "uneducated".