Originally Posted by senojekips

As I have said I think for the third time now, how about the fact that my answers have been based on several occasions on your own information, if it's your info , you find the source. As you may well remember, I originally was not of the opinion that homos were born that way. It was your answer that showed that they are in fact mentally flawed, I merely pointed out that this supported my point that they are unnatural amd not part of mainstream society.

Okay, that's one point that shouldn't matter anyway. As I said before, mentally retarded people are neurologically flawed, and yet you do not hate them... Do you?

Originally Posted by senojekips

Please quote one instance where I have denied you your opinion. I have never denied you your opinion, but I have shown in virtually every case that it has n been made on false premise.

False premise? What false premise? The false premise of my own experience with homosexuals?

Originally Posted by senojekips

The reason you have given up trying to disprove my argument (which you did on one occasion) is that, in doing so you actually gave me the very evidence i needed to show that I was correct. Homos and their lifestyle are abnormal.

I've never argued that they were different. But I'll fight you to the death if you think they should be treated differently simply because of a sexual preference. Human beings should NOT be treated as anything less than any other human beings based on an attraction to the same sex. Period. End of discussion.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Show me an instance where I have misquoted you to try and make a point.
Show me an instance where I have changed your words to deliberately try to chance the meaning of what you have said.
Show me once where I have put words into your mouth.

I can, and will, provide sources for all of these things if you care to deny that you have done them, in fact most of these things have been gone over before in Post 380. It seems that you are now just repeating yourself, because your argument is at a standstill as far as the subject of the thread is concerned and you have nowhere to go.

You're right, I did do those things. I'll take credit for everything I've said, but you've lied as well... You have, and are STILL calling yourself "correct" on an issue that you haven't proven to me. You say they aren't part of mainstream society... There are SEVERAL prominent celebrities who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual... I'd say that's just about as mainstream as mainstream can get... You say that you're somehow better than them because of your sexual preference. I can guarantee you that if there is a God, he's a lot more worried about how you love other people than whose brain got tweaked a bit. Do you have no compassion for the human condition? Or do you believe that anyone not in tune with your system of beliefs can rot 6 feet under?

Originally Posted by senojekips

Even now you are just "squirming" to avoid having to face the facts and admit that I am correct.

See? This is what I'm talking about... I'm not going to admit that you are correct, because you are NOT correct. Your OPINION is no more correct than mine.

Originally Posted by senojekips

How does one find "sources" for such things as, the fact that we do in actual fact have the right to judge homos, just as we do anyone and everything else in life, and that judgement is tha backbone of making us a civilised society and determining basic social expectations, like right and wrong.

Do you deny that this statement is correct?

Sources for your claims that homosexuals are not a part of mainstream society. And, as I said before, right and wrong is relevant. What is right and wrong to you may not be what is right and wrong to me. Take our debate here... Homosexuality... I believe that homosexuals should not be treated any differently because of their sexual preference. I believe that is the RIGHT thing to do, to treat them as equals in every way but sexual preference. You think it is WRONG to treat them as normal human beings in every way but sexual preference.

Do you deny that THIS statement is correct?

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

Okay, that's one point that shouldn't matter anyway. As I said before, mentally retarded people are neurologically flawed, and yet you do not hate them... Do you?

Don't hate them...but...actually this may be a pretty silly question being that I'm on a military site and should know this hands down...but...

Do we let mentally retarded people join the military force?

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

There are SEVERAL prominent celebrities who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual... I'd say that's just about as mainstream as mainstream can get...

Sorry again, but celebrities are not "mainstream." They are one little part of society who get too much image and people hanging on their every comment in my personal opinion.



p.s. Who wants Chris Crocker in the military? Yikers.

First of all, you have not answered my question so I will take that to be an admission that I was correct until you give me a satisfactory reason why it should be otherwise. I will not answer your latest post, or subsequent questions because if you care to go back over the last few pages, all you do is to keep asking me to answer your questions without answering mine. You have in effect answered questions that i have not asked, this is a well known ploy of politicians, but not good enough for me. Clear and decisive answers especially part (2).

I feel that it is time for a change of step. I will start asking questions and not move on until we have resolved who has got it right so, back to my questions for a change. two for a start, we'll keep this simple. So,.. for the second time.....

Originally Posted by senojekips

(1).How does one find "sources" for such things as, the fact that we do in actual fact have the right to judge homos, just as we do anyone and everything else in life,.... and that judgement is the backbone of what makes us a civilised society, and determining basic social expectations, like right and wrong.

(2).Do you deny that this statement is correct?

Also while you are doing this, I would like you to start thinking very seriously about your accusation in your last post to me, that I have "lied", because I feel it in my water that this is going to be a turning point in our relationship and this debate in particular.

Originally Posted by pixiedustboo

Don't hate them...but...actually this may be a pretty silly question being that I'm on a military site and should know this hands down...but...

Do we let mentally retarded people join the military force?

I am pretty sure we do not.

Originally Posted by senojekips

First of all, you have not answered my question so I will take that to be an admission that I was correct until you give me a satisfactory reason why it should be otherwise. I will not answer your latest post, or subsequent questions because if you care to go back over the last few pages, all you do is to keep asking me to answer your questions without answering mine.

I feel that it is time for a change of step. I will start asking questions and not move on until we have resolved who has got it right so, back to my questions for a change. two for a start, we'll keep this simple. So,.. for the second time.....

Question number one... Right and wrong is relevant. I'm not asking for sources regarding right and wrong, because obviously, there are none. This fact only reiterates my point that this is not a conventional right and wrong discussion, it cannot be resolved by one trumping point. It is merely a discussion of the psychological thought processes that bring us to our views on homosexuality.

Question number two... See above.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Also while you are doing this, I would like you to start thinking very seriously about you accusation in your last post to me, that I have "lied" because I feel it in my water that this is going to be a turning point in our relationship and this debate in particular.

You have said countless times that you have proved your correctness, when in fact, there IS no correctness in this debate! I've told you myself that I AGREE with the fact that homosexuals are neurologically different and altered. That is blatantly obvious when you look at the reproduction aspect of the discussion. What you HAVEN'T proven to me is how that makes them somehow worthy of being discriminated against or anything less than equal treatment.


Pixie... You understand my point though... The topic has digressed a bit into a broader discussion about gays in general.

Originally Posted by Big_Z

I am pretty sure we do not.

ROFL, hehehehhee....

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

I'm not asking for sources regarding right and wrong, because obviously, there are none.

What exactly are you asking for sources for then.?

Question number two... See above.

Again,... Is my statement right or wrong? "that judgement is the backbone of what makes us a civilised society, and determining basic social expectations, like right and wrong". There is only one right and one wrong when we are judging social expectations. But don't worry that subject is coming up shortly in regard to your demand for "sources" etc.

I can see that we are going to have do this the hard way.

You have said countless times that you have proved your correctness, when in fact, there IS no correctness in this debate! I've told you myself that I AGREE with the fact that homosexuals are neurologically different and altered. That is blatantly obvious when you look at the reproduction aspect of the discussion. What you HAVEN'T proven to me is how that makes them somehow worthy of being discriminated against or anything less than equal treatment.

Piss weak excuse Rob. Stating that I have defeated your points is fact, and if you wish to start all over again we will go through them one at a time,... again. Me stating that it is correct is not a lie, especially seeing that as yet you have never been able to disprove what I have said, and I think that that is the reason why you suddenly started this denial ploy several pages back instead of sticking to the subject.

Pixie... You understand my point though... The topic has digressed a bit into a broader discussion about gays in general.

This sentence is a perfect example of you putting words in peoples mouths. Had she have "understood your point ", she would not have made the statement in the first place.

Just read the answers,......

Originally Posted by senojekips

What exactly are you asking for sources for then.?

I'm asking for sources that somehow prove you right and me wrong. Because saying it doesn't make it true.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Again,... Is my statement right or wrong? "that judgement is the backbone of what makes us a civilised society, and determining basic social expectations, like right and wrong". There is only one right and one wrong when we are judging social expectations. But don't worry that subject is coming up shortly in regard to your demand for "sources" etc.

I've already said that judgement was a poor choice of words, and that we DO judge people. AKA, yes. Your statement is correct. Now, I am curious as to what right and wrong you are referring. Because, as I've said before (again), right and wrong is relevant. Completely and totally relevant... I suppose you'll bring up some crap about the majority, to which I will reply with something about the Civil Rights movement, and round and round we go again.

Originally Posted by senojekips

I can see that we are going to have do this the hard way.

Piss weak excuse Rob. Stating that I have defeated your points is fact, and if you wish to start all over again we will go through them one at a time,... again. Me stating that it is correct is not a lie, especially seeing that as yet you have never been able to disprove what I have said, and I think that that is the reason why you suddenly started this denial ploy several pages back instead of sticking to the subject.

Sorry, but all you've done is talked back to me. You cannot be correct when there is no right or wrong. It's impossible.

Originally Posted by senojekips

This sentence is a perfect example of you putting words in peoples mouths. Had she have "understood your point ", she would not have made the statement in the first place.

Lets ask Pixie,.....

Quite the contrary, I think she DID understand my point, but she decided to take the statement more literally than it was intended.


But Spike, this really doesn't matter... We're just two guys on an internet forum talkin ****. None of this is going to affect the legislation that results from the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. None of this is going to somehow change the other person's opinion on homosexuality... None of this matters in the slightest. All this is doing is hurting our wrists and blood pressure.
So I'll leave you with a peaceful truce. No more "you're only giving up because you know you're wrong" stuff... No more "I gotta have the last word" posts. I'm done posting, and not claiming to have won a damned thing. I'm only claiming that you haven't won anything either. Aside from wearing me out from repetition.

Take it easy, bud.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

--snip--- I suppose you'll bring up some crap about the majority, to which I will reply with something about the Civil Rights movement, and round and round we go again.

And I suppose you know of another way in which Right and wrong is established? Of course it is determined by the majority and your inference that there is some other way of determining it is patently absurd. This is another of those points for which there is no Source for either the question or the answer. But that fact has little bearing who is right and who is wrong. So to disprove my answer, please tell me about another common method (other than majority rule ) by which society arrives at what is right and what is wrong.

This is nothing like the Civil Rights debate as coloureds are not (as a group) mentally flawed. All been said before.

Quite the contrary, I think she DID understand my point, but she decided to take the statement more literally than it was intended.

But of course you would, maybe Pixie will enlighten us herself. Never the less it was a good example of your habit of deliberately trying to put words into the mouths of others. I feel that if that is what she meant, that is what she would have said.

Aside from wearing me out from repetition.

for someone who has argued and denied the points of others for thirty some odd pages, I find it odd that now I am asking for direct answers you should suddenly start going on about this debate being of little consequence.

Originally Posted by Big_Z

I am pretty sure we do not.

And there is a reason for this, the reason being the mentally retarded would have a dangerous impact on the Army. A retarded person inability in cognative thinking would be a hazard both to himself and to others around him. In my company, we employee them as janitors and messengers, they are simply too handicapped for anything else. I am truly sorry for them, I do not envy their plight.

But Homosexuality is not the same thing. Its not a physicial disability and there has been no evidence to prove that being gay has a harmself effect on the military, aside from the "moral" of certain individuals. The fact that gays currently serve in many Armies of the World (including NATO) already would seem to suggest that they are also capable of serving in the US Army.