Does belief in religion cause wars?

LeEnfield, I agree with you, empire building is almost a natural evolution for countries as they seek to expand their sphere of influence. It used to be done soldiers, explorers & missionaries, nowadays it is done by financiers, bankers and accountants.

Do I believe GB was wrong to build its Empire - NO. Had it failed to do so other countries would've filled the void, were we the greatest rulers, probably not, but it is no use crying over spilt milk, we're talking about an era where might was right, so many countries changed hands after wars, it ws like a giant game of monopoly.

I do think that we need to be honest and accept that some of our reasons for Empire building were not quite humanitarian. Religion was used as a big part of that, either to sell expansion to Parlaiment or to justify its occurence. Fortunately as we develop into a more anti clericalist scoiety, that doesn't wash so much - so perhaps the truth will out? Eventually - Hopefully.
 
Oh good, I was worrying that you were a Ustasa.

And I agree with what you said, Muslims conflicting with Orthodox, Orthodox conflicting with Catholics.. Horrible.
 
Well in Islamic Religion , We Have the Jihad fe Sabel Allah , Which fighting in the Name Of Allah , And i Like it Bcuz we have to defend our Land , What Arab ( Us ) Do is Just Not Muslim we must fight to get Israel oUT BUT NOT IN THE wAY OF the Terrisom as the Last is Killing muslims And US not Israelis ,, and that is Wron in our reiligon
 
Ollie Garchy said:
Does Religion Contribute to War?

Of course it does. Why? War is a matter of civilization or of human organization. -snip-
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I strongly disagree:

While religion might be an "officially featured" bit to motivate the solds, it is rarely the reason in the last 5 centuries...

Wars in the last 2k years (from the POV of ppl organizing/starting/"tool"izing them) have mainly/generally (a very few exceptions recognized) been about either 1. Territory, 2. Wealth/Ressources and 3rd: Power/Influence

Those might intersect, but from my POV these are the basic principles for wars to be fought until today, all the rest is just PR according to the times, prove me wrong.

Just to make clear what I am talking about, even todays asymetric stuff or even terrorist campaings like Al Kaida, IRA or ETA ones can be reduced to these factors.

Not too many mysteries IMHO.

Rattler
 
I agree with Rattler - although religion does get used as an excuse for war.

The more I examine this, I seem to find that since the Dark Ages, religion has been used as a pretext for war, but the perpetrators actually have ulterior motives. Then again I'm atheist, so I tend to regard most people as venal & self serving, using any label they can, just to get the job done - today I'm mostly cynical.
 
Religion doesnt start war, it just mainly generates stereotype, racism and hate.

Something the world SERIOUSLY has to get rid of.
 
Yes - for example, Adolf Hitler and The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem were probably the closest political allies of WW11.
 
Yes but then Adolf Eichmann also facilitated the movement of a lot of European Jews to Palestine and Winston Churchill himself said that if Hitler ever invaded hell he would at least put in a good word for the devil perhaps the The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem prefered hell to the British.
 
If you think about it, loss less people would have been killed in WW2 if we DIDNT have petty religions.

Hitler wouldnt have anything against jews, he wouldnt have been so ultra-nationalistic and I guess there would be half less reason to even fight any wars.
 
MontyB said:
Yes but then Adolf Eichmann also facilitated the movement of a lot of European Jews to Palestine and Winston Churchill himself said that if Hitler ever invaded hell he would at least put in a good word for the devil perhaps the The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem prefered hell to the British.
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Quite possibly; He and Hitler certainly shared similar aims and ambitions, so surely they both attained his preference.
 
Balkan-MiG said:
If you think about it, loss less people would have been killed in WW2 if we DIDNT have petty religions.

Hitler wouldnt have anything against jews, he wouldnt have been so ultra-nationalistic and I guess there would be half less reason to even fight any wars.
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WWII would have been fought regardless of the anti-Semitic nature of the Nazi's, it was really just the continuation of WWI, which was fought over economic reasons (as most wars from the 17th century on have). Hitler playing on the anti-Semitism present throughout Europe at the time merely put him slightly above his rivals, but either way the political situation of the time meant it was inevitable that Germany would move towards war once more. Even the idea of more people dying as a result of religion is debatable, if Hitler doesn't alienate the Jewish population of Europe that gives the Nazi's and their allies millions of additional supporters and German Jews were every bit as nationalistic and enraged over the Treaty of Versailles as the gentiles of Germany.

It is true that 12 million people died in the Holocaust, and we'll be conservative and say that 10 million of them were targeted as a direct result of their religious beliefs, but if Germany has say... 1 million more skilled laborers and 200,000 additional soldiers in 1940, does the Soviet Union stop the Germans outside of Moscow? With a few dozen extra bombers that the increased workers can provide does Britain survive the blitz? If the Fascist puppet regimes in Eastern Europe aren't rounding up their Jewish populations and instead putting their efforts towards fighting the Russians is Russia able to stabilize the front before the Axis capture their oil fields in the south? The Nazi's and their allies (with the exceptions of... Italy and Hungary? I think those were the only two not actively assisting in the Holocaust.) put a lot of effort into the "Final Solution" and all those resources could have wreaked havoc on the allies if the anti-Semitism is removed from the equation. There are plenty of wars that were caused by religious differences, but WWII really isn't one of them.
 
This is a really tricky subject, as I've said before the more I look into it, religion is used as a pretext, but there are other gains. This does not take into account the zealot element, who believe that their path is the only one and that their god is, but I'm struggling to find a purely religious war, any suggestions people?
 
Partisan said:
This is a really tricky subject, as I've said before the more I look into it, religion is used as a pretext, but there are other gains. This does not take into account the zealot element, who believe that their path is the only one and that their god is, but I'm struggling to find a purely religious war, any suggestions people?
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Absolutely- the one we face at present. Militant Islam. The only religion that considers the killing of non-believers is acceptable and desirable and worthy of great reward.
 
Religion is the spark which lights the kindle that is man. You can have a beautiful flame, or it can but a destructed fire that can destroy all around it.
 
Del Boy said:
Absolutely- the one we face at present. Militant Islam. The only religion that considers the killing of non-believers is acceptable and desirable and worthy of great reward.
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Yep got you on that, but is it a religious war if only 1 side is fighting on religious grounds, or does it take both sides to make it a religious war?

I know that's how it is depicted by the muslim extremists, but not here in the West, we're apparently doing it out of decency.
 
Partisan said:
Yep got you on that, but is it a religious war if only 1 side is fighting on religious grounds, or does it take both sides to make it a religious war?

I know that's how it is depicted by the muslim extremists, but not here in the West, we're apparently doing it out of decency.
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The problem is that if you give any religion absolute power in a state you will quickly see that it isn't only fundamentalist Islam that wants to kill non-believers you just have to look at the wests history to see that.

I tend to believe that the reason we havent had any "crusades" in the last 700 years is not because Christianity has evolved but because west has managed to relegate religion to a personal preference and not a state requirement.
 
MontyB said:
The problem is that if you give any religion absolute power in a state you will quickly see that it isn't only fundamentalist Islam that wants to kill non-believers you just have to look at the wests history to see that.

I tend to believe that the reason we havent had any "crusades" in the last 700 years is not because Christianity has evolved but because west has managed to relegate religion to a personal preference and not a state requirement.
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We haven't had any crusades but Europe is still soaked in blood between the various Christian denominations having a go at it. 30 years war, Hundred years war etc. That wasn't so long ago. The Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland are still taking a whack at each other from time to time.

I don't think any religious is inheritable violent. In fact most (including Islam) preach peace and tolerance. The problem as usual, is people who seek to dominate others and who twist religion to push extremist agendas on others. The fact is you can twist the Torah, Bible, Koran into saying anything you like and then justifying that through violence.

And BTW, I think in the USA some of the more radical evangelicals and Born-agains are a hairs breath from adopting violence and terrorism to push their religious interpretations. World Church of the Creator for example as been implicated in several hate-related attacks. Their leader got life in jail for trying to assassinate a judge. Since we don't have a born-again Christian Fundamentalist as President anymore, the loonies are going to start to feel disenfranchised, isolated, and persecuted (a.k.a war on Christians). Like all radicials, these people only view themselves as "Christians", not anyone else -especially not those who don't share their radical ideas.

You can be sure some of these people will adopt violence to put themselves and their twisted religion back into the spotlight. They are as radical, intolerant, and hateful as any Islamic group. Some of them are so loony that ought to be hunted in the same manner Osama is just as a precaution before they really do something crazy.
 
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There will always be radicals in anything. I agree with MontyB that Separation of Church and State has played a part in the lack of religious wars here.
 
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