About Disgracefully lenient sentence for Haditha murderer Page 15
|February 7th, 2012||#141|
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I can accept the the need for split second decisions, I can accept that things were confused, I can accept a whole lot of things that led to this happening what I have trouble with is people believe mistakes that led to deaths of 24 people none of which were actual combatants can be left unpunished and what I find unfathomable is how people find excuses for this.
We can all see how these things can happen we don't have to have been there to understand that and better yet we have your experiences to fall back on as proof that it can happen but like it or not mistakes (and I am being generous in calling it a mistake because I don't entirely believe it was) still end up in front of courts and they still receive sentences relative to the size of the mistake made and in this case that has not happened.
People can drone on about stress, pressure, lack of wind down time anything you like and that explains why it happened but it does not make it acceptable and the general perception I get from the responses here is "it happened, its a rough job so they should be absolved of responsibility for mistakes made" and I find that rather appalling.
In closing I would suggest that it is not the fact that this happened that is causing the problem it is the lack of ensuing justice that is causing the problem.
We are more often treacherous through weakness than through calculation. ~Francois De La Rochefoucauld
Last edited by MontyB; February 7th, 2012 at 23:10..
|February 7th, 2012||#142|
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There you go, no attempt was made to ensure that the occupants were not unarmed civilians. Other than which the headshots and the lack of any evidence to backup the grenade story, (no shrapnel wounds no signs of blast related injuries) which ties in perfectly with the surviving child's description of what happened, clearly show that the account given above was a lie.
I might be able to believe that a single man may me accidentally shot in the heat of battle (if they were fighting against return fire which they were not), but 24 people including a high percentage of women and children? I'll bet you believe in the tooth fairy too.
"I am totally responsible for what I write,... however I cannot be held responsible for your complete inability to understand"
Last edited by senojekips; February 7th, 2012 at 20:06..
|February 7th, 2012||#143|
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We are in agreement that there should not be absolution for these guys. I too believe they should have recieved a much harsher sentence. I think the disagreement is the intent. Some of us believe it was murder, and others believe it was manslaughter. This makes a huge difference in sentencing. I'm in the corner that bad decisions were made by those on the ground and lives were lost. They should be tried based off of that, negligence resulting in the loss of civilian life. I don't think anyone here agrees they should have gotten off with the sentence they recieved. I think the main sticking point is trying to decide how to approach a situation like this. Too much of a crack down, then the example that is set before the rest of the military will cause hesitation in combat because the guys on the ground will feel as if anything they do will result in them being put away. Too little punishment sends the message that soldiers are above the law.
Even though this sentence is terribly thin, the ramifications for the remainder of the military have been felt. The controversy in the wake of this incident did in fact force policy makers and commanders to re-evaluate their approach to the situation in Iraq. The US military took a more hands on approach with the populace and the ROE got very restrictive. Essentially, soldiers and Marines in the wake of this incident were put on VERY short leashes...some fallout was felt, still, I believe a lot more good came out of the situation because it forced the Iraqi people and the US military to deal with one another. I strongly believe that this helped in allowing a majority of the Iraqi population to see Americans as what we had wanted them to see us as in 2003, unfortunately the fruits of that labor were not seen until 2007.
Ultimately, I believe a lot more Iraqi lives were spared as a result of this incident. It is unfortunate that the families of the Iraqi's killed will be disappointed with the result of this sentence. At the same time, they can be grateful that the event itself forced the US military to look at its' policies and change them, probably saving thousands or tens of thousands of lives as a result.
|February 8th, 2012||#144|
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Never the less, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind, that this court case was a deliberate and blatant whitewash, and although I do understand why a government does these things I am still very much against it, as it does nothing to show that this was a flagrant breach of the intent of the Geneva Conventions.
It puts us in the same camp as those whom we say are the "bad guys".
Yes,... I know, this is only a very small percentage of all the troops, but what must be remembered is that, it's the bad events that stick in the memory of the people concerned.
Last edited by senojekips; February 8th, 2012 at 00:56..
|February 8th, 2012||#145|
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Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage.
|February 8th, 2012||#146|
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The problem is I am not seeing the same reports about the other multinational troops in the region so while I would suggest that Spikes description is a bit extreme I think it does indicate a problem inherent to the US military however I would also suggest that the numerical disparity between the US and other forces in the region contribute as well.
|February 8th, 2012||#147|
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I was being deliberately circumspect in my choice of those words, as strongly suspect the truth is a great deal worse.
Last edited by senojekips; February 8th, 2012 at 03:41..
|February 8th, 2012||#148|
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With that attitude you wouldn't be a good academic as we use the word "Theory" to cover this instance in other words a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, regarding something as wrong until proven right is not good science or engineering for that matter.
I am referring to four high profile incidents that took 2 minutes to search on the net I would suggest there are thousands of lesser know or covered incidents as well but on the whole I would agree I would expect that the level of crime would be no more or less than an average city of the same population.
|February 8th, 2012||#149|
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lol, I was going to mention the numerical disparity between U.S and the rest of the coalition. Also we been there for like 10 years, incidents are inevitable.
They are correct when they say negativity of a country stays in the mind of others more than their positivity, Ghostrider. As far as I know though, most Iraqi civillians didn't want us to leave despite these incidents.
If you want, I can look for incidents the coalition had taken part of.
|February 8th, 2012||#150|
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I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Frank Lloyd Wright
Last edited by perseus; February 8th, 2012 at 13:29..