Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

Its well known that Bader was arrogant beyond words, arrogance that could get people killed. His fellow officers at Colditz didn't like him at all as he was forever baiting the guards which could have ended up with rounds flying everywhere.

And it's exactly that sort of thing that was left out of the books we had at school when we were reading about WW2. Bader was always portrayed as some dashing hero who overcame a terrible disability to become a 'grand' fighter pilot saving the Empire.
And again, left out of the movies such as you mentioned about Gibson in the Dam Busters movie. I suppose the story tellers like to think we want to hear about magnificent heroes and not 'real' people <shrug>

There is a habit of doing that.
Douglas Bader was an arrogant, bull headed, SOB, but would he have been able to get back in the cockpit if he was a "nice guy"?

Guy Gibson was another sod, disliked by the rank and file and junior officers, but again, could he have achieved what he did with 617 Squadron if he too was a nice guy?

Some recent revisions of the Zulu War of 1879 have shown that John Chard VC, the officer commanding Rorke's Drift, wasn't well liked by other fellow officers and was considered a "Most idle and useless individual" by his commanding officer.
He was still a very brave man though.

Nelson was frequently sea sick, arrogant, vain, with a high opinion of himself, who wound up his superiors because he would not shy away from telling them they were wrong when he disagreed with them, and by wearing non official awards and medals presented to him by foreign governments.

Whether you love or loathe Bader, you can't help smiling when you hear how after the war, when invited as guest of honour at a dinner in Germany with former Luftwaffe pilots, he walked into the room and said:
"My God! Didn't know we left so many of you b*st*rds alive!"

Derek Robinson's novel "Piece of Cake" about an RAF fighter squadron in the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, was very heavily criticised when first published because his characters were real people, like Gibson and Bader, who were arrogant, rude, class conscious, stuck up, opinionated individuals, who fought like a lioness protecting her cubs when the time came.
But when you read the personal histories of veterans, they all know people just like that.

Throughout history, individuals short falls in personality have been glossed over in the official story.
Personaly, I find it makes them more interesting when you find out they weren't super human.

If the Dam Busters remake does go ahead and the script by Stephen Fry is as good as I think it will be, I hope it does do a warts and all story, as it will make it a better, more interesting story.

The thing that would spoil watching the film for me is knowing the aircraft aren't real, but computer generated. Stephen Fry was asked to find another name for Gibsons dog, then they heard that Gibson use to call his dog Nigsy and decided to call him that. Yea right. Bloody political correctness creeping in again, historical fact is historical fact like it or not.

I didn't enjoy watching Full Metal Jacket because I knew part of it was filmed at the old Beckton gasworks near Dagenham East London, and Bassingbourne the Queens Division Depot, both of which I recognised.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

The thing that would spoil watching the film for me is knowing the aircraft aren't real, but computer generated. Stephen Fry was asked to find another name for Gibsons dog, then they heard that Gibson use to call his dog Nigsy and decided to call him that. Yea right. Bloody political correctness creeping in again, historical fact is historical fact like it or not.

I didn't enjoy watching Full Metal Jacket because I knew part of it was filmed at the old Beckton gasworks near Dagenham East London, and Bassingbourne the Queens Division Depot, both of which I recognised.

I would like to see a re-make of the old movie "Sink the Bismarck" I liked it, even if the personal things between the hunter, the British naval officer and the admiral on board the Bismarck was strange.
Even a re-make of “The Longest Day” would be interesting to watch

On the question ‘Is the dog still with us and does it have a different name?’ , Stephen Fry answered : It’s no good saying that it is the Latin word for black or that it didn’t have the meaning that it does now – you just can’t go back, which is unfortunate.
You can go to RAF Scampton and see the dog’s grave and there he is with his name, and it’s an important part of the film.
The name of the dog was a code word to show that the dam had been successfully breached.
In the film, you’re constantly hearing ‘N-word, N-word, N-word, hurray’ and Barnes Wallis is punching the air. But obviously that’s not going to happen now.
So Digger seems OK, I reckon.

found it on this blog.

Aren't we wanting for the impossible? We want a movie with the "correctness" of a documentary. A movie is made to make money, so they sometimes (most of the time) have to twitch the truth. Also making a movie about a topic from the past isn't possible without CGI. I think we have to live with that.
That's why I like those old WWII movies made during or just after the war. They could use the originals.

Now as this film could be made in Hollywood just who do you think they would have in the leading roles.

Hollywood and historical facts do not get along well with each other. But the viewer does get curious about it and will search for the truth.
But we also have to admit that sometimes even "experts" disagree with how it really happend.

Movie directors call themselves artists, not historians. But the level in research (clothing, arms etc.) are sometimes very impressive.

On blu-ray disks there is often a chance to see the move with commentary of the director which can give a clue about why and how they did something.

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

Now as this film could be made in Hollywood just who do you think they would have in the leading roles.

When I first heard about the film a few years back they said it was being shot here in the South Island as there are valleys and dams that are very similar and permission had been granted to use them, this of course may have changed recently though, but Weta Workshop still have it on their website as an ongoing project so my guess is that it will be a NZ production with Hollywood cash and British writing.

However I suspect they are going to get the guy from house, Higgins from Magnum PI and Hugh Grant to play the roles.



As for realism I have great faith in Peter Jackson as Lord of the Rings was almost a microcosm of the South Island right down to the Orcs.

What about Bruce Willis or Stallone bow this would make it a hit in the US, lets face it they won every other battle.

This thread reminded me of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B69CquvLHgY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B69CquvLHgY