I am somewhat the other way, I tend to think that had the Germans got an established beach head and and an airfield or two operational it would have been all over but the shouting for Britain.

Lets face it Ireland would have swapped sides at the first available opportunity.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I am somewhat the other way, I tend to think that had the Germans got an established beach head and and an airfield or two operational it would have been all over but the shouting for Britain.

I dont agree, an underground network would have created havoc for any invading force. As someone once said, "Invading a country is the easy part, holding it is another thing altogether."

Originally Posted by Partisan

Yes the Germans could and would've got boots on the ground.

Could it have been sustained - I think not. I am proud of my nation but do have our down side - stubborn and obdurate amongst them; .

Thats a down side? I'd take that as a plus point.

Originally Posted by Partisan

for this reason I feel that the UK (& I mean all of it) would have been a counter insurgency nightmare to the Germans.

I agree totally.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Lets face it Ireland would have swapped sides at the first available opportunity.

The South was as you know was officially neutral, although there were a lot of rumours that the South were refueling U Boats. If my memory is correct, a US Army unit in the North threatened to invade the South.

There are many airfields along the South Coast of England now once they had taken one of those they could have flown troops and supplies from France. Now a 30 mile crossing by plane from France would have have been about 20 minutes just think of the men and stores that could have been brought over by a fleet of JU 52 in a day.

My answer is yes. The royal navy had the sea resources to take out a German invasion fleet.

Although a majority of the major combatants were sunk later in the war in actions in the south pacific and the Mediterranean sea during the 1940s they actually were in place in the north, and available should the need arise. But what everyone forgets is that the royal navy had a very large supply of submarines, coastal patrol craft, and armed auxiliaries that would have made any crossing rough for the smaller assault vessels. Remember, the big boys were holding down watch on the areas the big German ships (like Bismarck or Scharnhorst) were at to make a break out in the Atlantic. Any movement of the large German ships to support the invasion would have brought these British fleet elements down as well. Some were involved with the capture of Norway, and weren’t really available for the invasion of Britain.

Don’t count out the smaller units of a navy. Combined, they shot down 177 of the attacking German bombers at Dunkirk, and even managed to polish off a few stukas on the way. When placed together for mutual defense, they would have given good account of themselves. And once the ships were among the invasion fleet itself it would have been like terriers among the rats. And when you get in close its harder for an air arm to kill the ships...unless the bombers wanted to kill their own ship as well.

http://www.rusi.org/research/militarysciences/history/commentary/ref:C4538DAE3AB61C/

Try this link to get another’s perspective on just this subject.

The strength of Britain, wasn't only in their Navy, it was their attitude in fighting the air war above their skies. Germany could not launch Unternehmen Seelöwe without superiority over the skies.

Thus, the ability of the RAF, with little human resource, was able to defeat the Luftwaffe in gaining any sort of potential superiority. I think, the lack of strategic imagination on the part of the Luftwaffe command only further helped the Brits prevent invasion. Not to mention that Hitler by that time had already been itching to invade Russia.

Originally Posted by Mark Conley

My answer is yes. The royal navy had the sea resources to take out a German invasion fleet.

Although a majority of the major combatants were sunk later in the war in actions in the south pacific and the Mediterranean sea during the 1940s they actually were in place in the north, and available should the need arise. But what everyone forgets is that the royal navy had a very large supply of submarines, coastal patrol craft, and armed auxiliaries that would have made any crossing rough for the smaller assault vessels. Remember, the big boys were holding down watch on the areas the big German ships (like Bismarck or Scharnhorst) were at to make a break out in the Atlantic. Any movement of the large German ships to support the invasion would have brought these British fleet elements down as well. Some were involved with the capture of Norway, and weren’t really available for the invasion of Britain.

Don’t count out the smaller units of a navy. Combined, they shot down 177 of the attacking German bombers at Dunkirk, and even managed to polish off a few stukas on the way. When placed together for mutual defense, they would have given good account of themselves. And once the ships were among the invasion fleet itself it would have been like terriers among the rats. And when you get in close its harder for an air arm to kill the ships...unless the bombers wanted to kill their own ship as well.

http://www.rusi.org/research/militarysciences/history/commentary/ref:C4538DAE3AB61C/

Try this link to get another’s perspective on just this subject.

Very good link Mark, a lot of information I wasn't aware of.

I was always dubious that the RN could have fought off any landing's by German forces during 1940, not that I doubted the RN's ability to fight, but the lack of air cover. But the link you gave, suggests that the RN could have in effect fought off any invasion.

I would also suggest that British radar used to great effect during the Battle of Britain and the failure to destroy those radar sites by the Luftwaffe, would also have been a tremendous asset to the RN.

Just look at the trouble the Royal Navy had in trying to get convoys to Malta, they used aircraft carriers, battleships ,cruisers and destroyers and they took a right pounding for it out of about 16 ships that started about three got through.

Mark Conley, a great piece of research - well done. It backs up my belief (another reason why I like it) that warfare is truly 3 dimensional and you negelct considering any 1 of them at your cost.

I also think that Hitler still believed that GB could be made to reason, so that he could concentrate on his bogeyman - Stalin. It would be interesting to see what overtures he was making throughout this period.

Originally Posted by Partisan

I also think that Hitler still believed that GB could be made to reason, so that he could concentrate on his bogeyman - Stalin. It would be interesting to see what overtures he was making throughout this period.

Rudolf Hess springs to mind. Did he fly to Scotland off his own back, or was he ordered to by Hitler?

Another question that springs to mind, a British Army doctor examined the man supposed to be Rudolf Hess in Spandau prison stated empatically that the man was not Hess. Hess was wounded during WW1, the man in Spandau showed no such wound.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

Another question that springs to mind, a British Army doctor examined the man supposed to be Rudolf Hess in Spandau prison stated empatically that the man was not Hess. Hess was wounded during WW1, the man in Spandau showed no such wound.

The medical report on the wound suffered in ww1 issued on his recovery, showed that the wound area was quite small with a pea sized entry and exit holes ( he was hit with a 6.5mm rifle round ) it would have left little trace after a number of years.