Originally Posted by Del Boy

Well Hurrah- great news- At the first possible ballot-box opportunity, the UK local council elections, unelected Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Labour Party was swept from power in a political blood-bath.

Here are the figures :-

Conservative - 44%

Liberal Democrat - 25%

Labour - 24%


3rd place. Worst figures for Labour since records began. If these figures were reflected in a national general election, the Conservatives would hold a great majority.

Unfortunately, Gordon Brown, unelected, has been running scared of such an election since he came to power, so we have another 2 years to wait and suffer.

Also removed today was Red Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, beaten by conservative Boris Johnson.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...day-for-labour

Why do you think a conservative government would be any less intrusive? It seems to me there is so little difference between the parties nowadays it hardly matters who you vote for. 'Red' Ken as you call him and of course Gordon Brown was very cushy with cooperations, the latter has recently suffered bad publicity for imposing extra tax on the poor. Boris has since endorsed the congestion charge. The London vote was purely based on personalities in my opinion.

Perseus - i have yet to get round to answering your previous posts. The link I posted to start this thread says it all. 10 years of this government has ruined my country. If you don't feel your freedom threatened good luck to you.

My last post simply related the facts of the election. And it is not I who calls Livingstone Red Ken. That has long been his title, since he ruled the GLC before the Maggie Thatcher era. You surely must be familiar with 'Red Ken' - where have you been?

If the conservatives don't come up to scratch then we kick them out, just as we have kicked this lot out.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Perseus - i have yet to get round to answering your previous posts. The link I posted to start this thread says it all. 10 years of this government has ruined my country. If you don't feel your freedom threatened good luck to you.

My last post simply related the facts of the election. And it is not I who calls Livingstone Red Ken. That has long been his title, since he ruled the GLC before the Maggie Thatcher era. You surely must be familiar with 'Red Ken' - where have you been?

If the conservatives don't come up to scratch then we kick them out, just as we have kicked this lot out.

Del Boy I didn't say our freedom isn't being threatened, in fact here is more evidence of it.

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/londo...illance_powers

the question is, to what extent is it necessary and can it be directed in the correct way without inciting racism. Now the IRA isn't no longer a factor there seems little point investigating white civilians for terrorism without very good reason.

Of course the UK are is a special situation, we have a large population of Muslims that are not particularly patriotic (as opposed to the US) yet we decide to invade a Muslim country on a false premise. Surely a recipe for disaster, would this have happened under Brown as PM, certainly would under Cameron. It is not surprising we are having to step up security. What would you do given the responsibility of ensuring safety for UK citizens?

As I have said before, I am not referring to security measures in my concerns; I believe they are an unfortunate & unavoidable necessity.

I am very concerned indeed at the intrusion by this government into our personal freedoms, such as myriad jobsworth's having authority to press their way into our homes on a variety of excuses, and ever-increasing census, such as the one described. The up-coming disaster of the identity card , carrying so much personal info, which then doesn't have to be carried. How useful is that in apprehending terrorists etc? It is in fact important to an authoritarian government in other directions.

The combined police/army efforts worked very well against the IRA threat, I must say, but I also have to question what sort of sense it made to organise The Olympics here in the face of current difficulties.

Gordon Brown dismisses the aspirations of the man in the street here as irrelevant; they can be lied to, manipulated, cheated, in shameless fashion. I want to see far more accountability from our politicians.
As you know, he is already talked of as the worst Prime Minister in living memory. Absolutely untrustworthy. He even claims he was tucked up fast asleep on election night! He is always absent when the chips are down, and reputedly always was.

I agree with your take on our immigrant problem, but this Government created it, against all warnings.

And when you ask - would the conservatives have done things differently, I have to ask you - would the democrats have done things differently in the USA?
Your question represents something we did not have a chance to find out. But hopefully we might now.

Originally Posted by perseus

DelBoy



Authorities often do after the event, but what about prevention in the first place given all the signs and warnings? Whether the West are doing a 'good job' internationally by creating hatred in Muslim communities is more open to debate



Having been caught on speed cameras twice when not intentionally speeding I have some sympathy for this view, but perhaps I might feel differently if I wasn't a driver and the mother of a child. Tax infringements are again a double edged sword, are you not in favour of the surveillance of drug pushers, muggers, burglars, deliberate tax avoidance and benefit cheats, since this potentially reduces the pressure to increase taxes and reduces crime for law abiding people? Perhaps a camera has prevented you getting robbed, you will never know.



If we take London as an area with high surveillance

• Almost all crime categories (except Trident gun crime) are showing decreases with total notifiable offences as a whole under 900,000 for the first time in the last 10 years.
• The overall sanction detection rate stands at 25%, above the MPA target of 24% and 4% up on the previous year.
• Robberies have not been this low since 2000/01 and have declined by almost 20% since 2006/07 (but business robbery has increased slightly).
• Gun enabled crime is now the lowest since 2000/0 although the MPA 5% reduction target has been missed.
• Residential burglary offences are down slightly on last year and at their lowest level since 1998/99.

Of course we could argue these figures are only reported crime but
perceived crime for the UK as a whole seems to be level or dropping

Sorry to be so slow in responding Perseus, but here goes:-

Re opening comment - I referred only to USA not 'the west'.

However, my Orwellian complaint regarding this government is not directed at CCTV etc, as you seem to conclude, but at the total increasing authoritarian control they seek to impose.
Who is allowed to break in to your house?

It may sound suprising, but according to a 2007 report by Harry Snook, a barrister for the Centre for Policy Studies, there are 266 powers allowing officials to enter your home, and not all require a warrant.

They have sold us down the river to the EU on all counts, including the refusal of the promised referendum.

They have divided our society by creating seperatist multicultural enclaves. (not to be confused with multi-racialism).

They have lost control of our borders completely, and landed us with untold numbers of illegal immigrants (they cannot say how many because they do not know), and have failed to cap legal immigration in such a small and crowded country. They have done nothing to control the acceptance of dangerously alien cultures into an already explosive situation.

They have supervised what looks very much like the break-up of The Union.

They have ruined our pension system, and landed masses of our pensioners into poverty.

They are dismissive of our wishes and concerns, or at least were until the latest election results.

They cheat on official crime figures constantly, leaving out vast swaves of negative info. The police are in the position of avoiding responding to a great many requests of quite serious crime, and it seems that more and more are not even included as worthy of police time.

This is not the country they inherited, and I am sad that we may have lost it forever. This is why I warn Americans at election time regarding promises of random 'Change'; my advice would be to stick to the tried and tested, and let political evolution ease its way steadily.

I am in no way against CCTV, but we are now long past that point, and well into much more specific intrusion, into our homes etc.

Regarding improvement in crime rates, as you pointed to, I am afraid I cannot accept them. I recall being 100% safe walking anywhere In London and elsewhere, and I spring from some of the most devastatingly dangerous places we now have. They used to be poor but terrific to live in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/1576068/Jacqui-Smith-Scared-to-walk-alone-at-night.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...sharp-end.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tatistics.html