About Come back George Orwell. Page 2
|April 27th, 2008||#11|
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helicopter surveillance over homes and property, road blocks, curfews on young people in cities, CIA/FBI refuse to release documents to defend clients in state courts, FBI peeking at domestic correspondence, being stopped on highways for being black or Hispanic subject to strip searches, immigration holding children in prison conditions for months without informing them of rights, private cooperations recording employees phone calls, voice mail, computer files, email, logs of websites, videotaping them at work, observing them in bathrooms and locker rooms, tracking using bugging. FBI asking librarians to report on books taken out by patrons with foreign sounding names, rejection for housing and employment because of race, appalling conditions in prisons (no need to go to Abu Ghraib, all this happens in US prisons). I've given up on the list this is only about a third. Of course some of this is the case in the UK as well.
Seems to me your freedom is an illusion, but providing the majority feel that way and vote accordingly, the rest can go to hell.
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Frank Lloyd Wright
|April 27th, 2008||#12|
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This particular bunch of shamed politicians who masquerade as our government have a record of rolling on 'voluntary' that quickly becomes compulsory, so that we have hundred's of of governments bodies, kwangos, and private companies who are able to force their way into our houses , if necessary, ( or very large fines imposed )under various excuses, for example, have we been adding worth by good internal home improvements and decorations; do we have a good view from our windows etc? Anything to gain access to more and more detailed info on everyone, some of which they sell. More and more non- police, or non-elected characters can hand out on the spot fines for very minor offences, like a mum whose little girl dropped a tiny piece of a sausage roll that was immediately snatched up by a bird, but drew a fine of £80 or so. This government goes back on all sorts of promises and commitments without shame and spends its time and efforts in manipulation to stay in power. We now have the most unpopular Prime Minister ever, it seems. Meanwhile, major crime flourishes and many of our prisons are fine hotels with everything laid on, including drugs being supplied in , and profits taken on drugs supplied out. Our prison guards complain about this, blame the authorities and say that believe it is now too entrenched for them to do anything to root it out. Many of our streets are very dangerous. My town is not like this, YET.
Our government has just reduced the rate of tax from 22% to 20%, ie 2% and obtained the money by increasing the tax on the very lowest earners, pensioners and those on fixed incomes, from 10% to 20%, ie 10%.
Some stupid people might suggest that this is because the British people are stupid, but I excuse those stupid enough to come up with such stupid simplifications by remembering that they are stupid; I do that 'cos I ain't stupid! He-he.
English by the grace of God.
Last edited by Del Boy; April 27th, 2008 at 15:04..
|April 27th, 2008||#13|
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I didn't say that America was perfect, perseus. There is a LOT of domestic surveillance going on these days, and the powers granted by the Military Commissions Act of '06 and PATRIOT Act are clearly not constitutional (habeas corpus, unlawful search & seizure, etc.). It's also becoming more common to sign your rights away as part of the contract when you get hired. Bad times.
But the only surveillance societies that can match the UK are China and Russia, so think about that.
Yes, I am a white male so racial profiling doesn't affect me.
"Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government." - George Washington
|April 27th, 2008||#14|
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|April 28th, 2008||#15|
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Of course surveillance is a double edged sword. If a camera helps to prevent a genuine terrorist incident or over serious criminal act, especially one affecting ourselves personally we would be pleased. It seems to me it is the way they are used, and the people who use them, rather than the surveillance itself that is the problem. Information gathered for purely political and cooperate interests (left v right and consumer/worker v company) should be outlawed. Moreover, all information should be treated with respect, security guards or officials laughing at couples caught on camera for example is unacceptable. Perhaps the officials should be monitored themselves. Dream on.
|May 1st, 2008||#16|
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But we have to bear in mind that America is in a war situation against enemies sworn to destroy. Always remember the victims ON the Sep 11 planes, as well as those throwing themselves from the top of the towers. That demonstrates how much your human rights mean to those swines. And take into account also that the American government is charged specifically with protecting you. They seem to have done a damn good job so far.
In Britain I am not referring to security measures designed to protect us. The intrusion here is all to do with finding new tax ways to screw the people, to pluck the golden goose even more, to impose authority and compulsion to a degree where so many see their freedoms slipping away.
At the same time, our streets are less and less safe. It seems to me that America's issues are ones of security, and that is how it should be, surely?
And as for your last line Perseus - That's democracy at work, ain't it?
|May 2nd, 2008||#17|
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perceived crime for the UK as a whole seems to be level or dropping
Last edited by perseus; May 2nd, 2008 at 08:03..
|May 2nd, 2008||#18|
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Regardless of its effect on crime or terrorism, I refuse to live in a surveillance society. Soldiers aren't the only ones who have to die for freedom in this day and age. Sometimes regular people who haven't signed up for it must die so that the rest may be free. There's something wrong when you accept being watched at all times as normal. I know if I had the choice of turning America into a constantly monitored country or dying to a terrorist bomb, I'd choose death.
|May 2nd, 2008||#19|
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Would you make the same choice for your family and friends?
Are you seriously contending that places of business should not have security cameras, what about subways where crime has always been a problem, how about national monuments where everyone with a cause feels the need to make their mark?
It seems that your choice is not whether you are going to be watched or not but rather who is going to do it the government or private security.
We are more often treacherous through weakness than through calculation. ~Francois De La Rochefoucauld
|May 3rd, 2008||#20|
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Well Hurrah- great news- At the first possible ballot-box opportunity, the UK local council elections, unelected Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Labour Party was swept from power in a political blood-bath.
Here are the figures :-
Conservative - 44%
Liberal Democrat - 25%
Labour - 24%
3rd place. Worst figures for Labour since records began. If these figures were reflected in a national general election, the Conservatives would hold a great majority.
Unfortunately, Gordon Brown, unelected, has been running scared of such an election since he came to power, so we have another 2 years to wait and suffer.
Also removed today was Red Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, beaten by conservative Boris Johnson.
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