I'm just curious what you guys make of this:

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism...5-045538-9520r

It's not meant to talk about the abduction and probable torture of people, because it's clear the US Government sees this a legitimate action. I'm just surprised at the audacity to do this in Europe. If we are cowards for not sharing your "need for action" why do you brings this part of your war overhere? Take 'm to Montana or Wyoming and hang a sign around his neck saying he's an alledged terrorist so he can be stoned to death in the Land of the Free. You made it clear that everything goes in the particular war, but why here?

But if proven to be a leftist rumour I'll bow my head, eat dust and apologise for my heated post. I'm just "roused" a bit by this piece of news, afraid that it might be true!

Oh, this is internal European politics. If anything is going on with the CIA in Europe it isn't like we didn't clear it with that country's government already. This is just politicians trying to posture in front of their constituants. "Look at me, I'm fighting the evil US, remember to vote Johnson!"

We've got all kinds of isolated bases on tiny islands in the middle of the vastness of the oceans, why would we take anyone important to Sweeden of all places?

But then again, this is the continent that is convinced the CIA attacked the twin towers on 9/11 so I guess I can't be too surprised.

You might be right about the politicians and their votes for the coming elections.... I wouldn't know, because I'm kept in the dark. It just comes as a pretty big shock to say the least!
You have to admit that this would be an enormous blow to the American image they have in the Western world.

That thing about the Twin Towers, I hope you know that that is nonsence! Sure there will be people saying that, but you have believers of these conspiracy theories world wide... even in the US.

Originally Posted by Ted

You have to admit that this would be an enormous blow to the American image they have in the Western world.

Why? We're keeping captured terrorists somewhere. Notice how the top #2 and #3 al-quaida guys are never seen in Guantanamo. You don't think we send the big fish to where al the TV cameras are do you? Oh, and we're torturing the top-tier al-quaida guys. The Bush administration re-defined the word "torture" after 9/11 to mean "any physical violence that causes the cesation of an internal organ" and there is a lot we can do to inflict pain without causing the cesation of an internal organ. You kinda' give up your right not to get tortured when you're trying to just wantonly kill civilians. You're a soldier on a battlefield, you get geneva protections. You try to strap on a suicide vest and kill mothers and children in malls... if we catch you you'll wish we didn't.

None of this is news to me... I just don't think it's going on in Sweeden of all places!

Fair enough, but then, for future use, state that you liberate countries to spread the American version of liberty and freedom. One that uses torture to ensure this will happen. Do this and you won't hear me again on the issue.

P.s. The Swedes have really nice and quite forest.... except a few reindeer, nobody will know you were there!

Originally Posted by Ted

Fair enough, but then, for future use, state that you liberate countries to spread the American version of liberty and freedom. One that uses torture to ensure this will happen. Do this and you won't hear me again on the issue.

P.s. The Swedes have really nice and quite forest.... except a few reindeer, nobody will know you were there!

That's a pretty high horse your on there Sparky. Hope you don't fall off.

We will have to agree that it does not seem very coherent to democratize a country but at the same time justify torture. The use of torture is uncompatible with a democratic state. The end does not justify the means

If we keep walking this way we will end with the destruction of the occidental democracies and the terrorist will win.

Originally Posted by Corocotta

We will have to agree that it does not seem very coherent to democratize a country but at the same time justify torture. The use of torture is uncompatible with a democratic state. The end does not justify the means

It really isn't a matter of the end justifying the means, it's more a difference between a soldier and a terrorist. Why should a terrorist, who deliberately tries to kill old women and children and beheads our captured soldiers get all the same rights as an enemy soldier who obeys all the geneva convention laws and fights with honor?

Where is the justice there?

If you fight by the geneva convention, you get all the geneva convention rights. If you torture and kill American soldiers then go out and murder babies, you forfiet your claim to get the same treatment as that soldier who obeys all the laws.

Now it isn't a matter of punnishment, we shouldn't torture every al-Qaida we capture but it is a matter of you giving up your priviledges under geneva the second you start breaking every single law in the book. So if you're a #2 or #3 al-Qaida and we pick you up? Yeah, we're going to make sure we know everything about every one of your plans to kill innocent civilians and we're going to do it by every means possible.

So if you're a #2 or #3 al-Qaida and we pick you up? Yeah, we're going to make sure we know everything about every one of your plans to kill innocent civilians and we're going to do it by every means possible.

You just gave me the right: US is going to use all means (including torture) to stop the terrorist. The end justifies the means is exactly what you just said. Again, the concepts of democracy and torture do not fit very well toguether, i would say that they are antagonists.

Has anyone seen or been to a "black" camp? The EU is working themselves into an intestinal frenzy over an unproven story that sounds like another area 51. I am amazed at the lack of self control when it comes to anything concerning the US.

I have another bit of info for the concerned citizens of certain countries in the EU, it this thing is truly black, the man on the street will never know about it. A black facility could build a Titan ICBM next door to the police station and no one would ever know what was going on.