Topic: Which was Churchill's biggest wartime blunder? 5

senojekips · January 6th, 2007

Politics (and absolute necessity), makes for strange bedfellows.

The fact that they worked together against a common enemy doesn't mean that Winnie trusted Stalin, (or vice versa).

Lord Londonderry · March 2nd, 2007

So true. Winnie never trusted Joe.

Young Winston · March 18th, 2007

Churchill was an amazing man, even after considering his faults.

sven hassell · March 26th, 2007

The sinking of The Prince of Wales and The Repulse.Churchill still believed in the supremacy of big battleships over that of aircraft carriers.

Strongbow · May 25th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by sven hassell

The sinking of The Prince of Wales and The Repulse.Churchill still believed in the supremacy of big battleships over that of aircraft carriers.

Yes, it was a terrible blow to Churchill.

It seems odd how the Australians were regularly being sucked into Churchills blunders.

Del Boy · June 5th, 2007

GALLIPOLI

mmarsh · June 5th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by sven hassell

The sinking of The Prince of Wales and The Repulse.Churchill still believed in the supremacy of big battleships over that of aircraft carriers.

It wasn't that Churchill didn't believe in Airpower, the Battle of Britain and the Battle of the Atlantic proved how powerful airplanes were.

Churchill's mistake was the same as the Americans at Pearl Harbor, he severely underestimated the capability of the Japanese Naval Air Corps, in this case the incredible range of the Mitsubishi G4M.

perseus · June 8th, 2007

I agree that Churchill and the Admiralty still underestimated air power, but it was intended to send the carrier Indomitable, the only such ship available after the Ark Royal had been sunk, but she had run aground in Jamaica.

The other problem was that the rush to send the capital ships to Singapore meant there would not be a large destroyer screen, essential to protect large ships from air attack.

The commander of force Z Phillips was not experienced in the role of aircraft at sea and did not make full use of the fighter aircraft available, as antiquated these were. As soon as fighters appeared in the sky the Japanese aircraft soon cleared off but by then it was too late and the damage was done.

MontyB · June 8th, 2007

Well here is something a little different I think one of his bigger screw ups was ordering a halt to operation Compass and diverting troops from the desert army to the Greek campaign before they captured Tripoli and drove the Italians from the African theatre thus ensuring a foothold for the Afrika Korps and a further 2 years of fighting.

perseus · June 8th, 2007

Yes, there is no doubt Churchill is to blame for this, the record makes it clear that just as in the case of Norway, Churchill urged this strategic choice in defiance of the military view. Wavell, Cunningham and Longmore stressed the weakness of resources in terms of existing or projected tasks. Churchill also seemed to ignore the latest ultra intelligence on German strength. Churchill chose Greece for political reasons and perhaps his pet idea of a Balkan front .

However what is less widely known is that he later Churchill had second doubts about this and signalled Cairo do not consider yourselves obliged to a Greek enterprise if it is to be another Norwegian fiasco. However Wavell now expressed the opinion that there were a fair chance of stopping the Germans, although the chiefs of staff still disagreed.

March 26th, 2007	Post 44
sven hassell Centurion	The sinking of The Prince of Wales and The Repulse.Churchill still believed in the supremacy of big battleships over that of aircraft carriers. __________________

June 5th, 2007	Post 46
Del Boy Tribunus Laticlavius	GALLIPOLI Last edited by Del Boy; June 8th, 2007 at 02:15.

June 8th, 2007	Post 48
perseus Centurion	I agree that Churchill and the Admiralty still underestimated air power, but it was intended to send the carrier Indomitable, the only such ship available after the Ark Royal had been sunk, but she had run aground in Jamaica. The other problem was that the rush to send the capital ships to Singapore meant there would not be a large destroyer screen, essential to protect large ships from air attack. The commander of force Z Phillips was not experienced in the role of aircraft at sea and did not make full use of the fighter aircraft available, as antiquated these were. As soon as fighters appeared in the sky the Japanese aircraft soon cleared off but by then it was too late and the damage was done. __________________ Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. Herman Goering

June 8th, 2007	Post 49
MontyB Tribunus Laticlavius	Well here is something a little different I think one of his bigger screw ups was ordering a halt to operation Compass and diverting troops from the desert army to the Greek campaign before they captured Tripoli and drove the Italians from the African theatre thus ensuring a foothold for the Afrika Korps and a further 2 years of fighting. __________________ If horses would have hands and could paint with their hands and create works of art like the humans, then horses would form and paint the gods with the shape of horses and they would build sculptures according to their own bodies. - Xenophanes

January 6th, 2007	Post 41
senojekips Tribunus Laticlavius	Politics (and absolute necessity), makes for strange bedfellows. The fact that they worked together against a common enemy doesn't mean that Winnie trusted Stalin, (or vice versa).

March 2nd, 2007	Post 42
Lord Londonderry Banned	So true. Winnie never trusted Joe.

March 18th, 2007	Post 43
Young Winston Banned	Churchill was an amazing man, even after considering his faults.

June 8th, 2007	Post 50
perseus Centurion	Yes, there is no doubt Churchill is to blame for this, the record makes it clear that just as in the case of Norway, Churchill urged this strategic choice in defiance of the military view. Wavell, Cunningham and Longmore stressed the weakness of resources in terms of existing or projected tasks. Churchill also seemed to ignore the latest ultra intelligence on German strength. Churchill chose Greece for political reasons and perhaps his pet idea of a Balkan front . However what is less widely known is that he later Churchill had second doubts about this and signalled Cairo do not consider yourselves obliged to a Greek enterprise if it is to be another Norwegian fiasco. However Wavell now expressed the opinion that there were a fair chance of stopping the Germans, although the chiefs of staff still disagreed.