eh, the Qing Empire?

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

The Chinese dynasties seemed to have a terrible time dealing with the many, many "barbarian" attacks. In this sense, China faced the same issue that ultimately brought Rome to it's knees. Most advanced ancient states had significant "barbarian" problems...is this not an indication that the larger empires could only expand to a particular point?

http://library.thinkquest.org/12255/...ty/dynasty.htm

Well, on a very shallow analysis of Chinese history what you are saying here seems to make sense. The Chinese were certainly plagued by their warlike neighbors to the north. But conquest by those barbarian invaders was also the all-too-frequent decay and collapse of the Dynasty from within. Essentially, take the Roman Empire as a model, but have the Empire repeatedly recreate itself -- reborn each time just as powerful as ever. And then you get the idea of China's Dynasties. At their height of power, any given Dynasty had very little to fear from the north. They were more than capable of dealing with them. But after a few centuries of corruption and ease, it was like lighting a match to gasoline when the barbarians invaded.

It is at least significant to consider that Ghengis Khan, China's most noted barbarian conquerer, played two rival Chinese dynasties against one another: The old and dying Song and the Chin. Ghengis Khan allied with the Song in applying a north/south surround and conquer maneauver on the Chin (who were probably more powerful than the Song.) With the Chin out of the way, that left only a decaying Song Dynasty (with control of only about half of China) to go. Ogedai (Ghengis Khan's son and successor) took advantage of the Song's weakness and conquered them as well. It didn't hurt matters that the Song were weakened by the war with the Chin.