Sun Tzu didn't write tactics. He wrote strategy. Those strategies work as well today as they did the day he wrote them.

Originally Posted by Snauhi

Yes but Sun tzu is not modern, try to fight with its tactics vs blitzkrieg

They're a bit of a b**ch when you have to switch hands (usually happens around corners).

Originally Posted by Locke

why? whats wrong will bullpups?
the styer-AUG and the other which the aussie army use are meant to be good solid weapons

i find it hard to believe that the chinese built any single military vehicle on their own... im sorry but chinese replicate basically all of their weapons... they are not leading in any form of technology that i know of. this is relevant not only in their military, but also in their economies products and their intellectuals (look how many chinese people won nobel prizes for 1/6th of the worlds population)...
their tactics are soviet, as are their weapons... which means quantity over quality... but as i said before, this will change in the future... not now however. they need to step over a number of barriers before they can ever lead in new technology.

wait, so u r say intellectuals copy other ppl to get the nobel prize? that's funny cos u wont say the chinese has copy people to get gold medals in the olympics.

at the moment u r right in military, but as i said the newest chinese tank is one of the best. and even better than the russians.

and how do u know the tactics are soviet? if so why they are reducing sizes now to a smaller better fighting force? i think that's back in the 50s and 60s

i fact, the chinese new subs, missle and tank is exceptional. if u see the news, u will always hear how gd the chinese missles were. the fighter plane's missle is develop by the chinese if u read the article on about flanker beats Us planes. and the missle beats the US.

it is true in wat u said in some sense, but which country hasent copy before? Japan copied German military style, each country follows the same pattern
America and USSR copy the German Jet plane to develop their own after WW2. pretty much all of east asia copy china in the old times. and pretty much we all speak english as our international language because of Britian be fighting around the world in the 18-19 century. if u say this then honestly u can find plenty of examples.

in fact, if u ask me about leading form of technology, i could name some, for example it was only the chinese have developed a new medicine to treat cancer cells that spreads, it is clever enough that it will "float" around in the body and destory the cancers cells that roam freely, reducing spread. but this is not relevant, and military technology wouldnt reveal it to us so i do not know.

but as u said before, alot of chinese get Nobel prize today, if u look at chinese people in ur schs college or uni, they are probably one of the top in their class or the whole sch/uni.

u must know it is amazing that 50 years ago, 99% of them are farmers, now its going to lead the world soon in many fields.

china is changing so fast as if a source is 1 year old, its going to be outdated. just trying to find them on the web, u will know what i am talkin about

SOURCES.

Originally Posted by gingerbeard

shows that he is not a tank military expert as he said before lol.

U say the abram will destory its target in its first hit. well actually it doesnt, the challenger in the iraq war has been accedently shot by an abram but the shell just simply bounced off, and the US lost abrams in the war while the UK didnt, it lost 1 challenger cos another challenger accendently shot its own kind.

the new tank uses composite ceramic armour in the new chinese tanks, i dunno how gd these armour are tho. but surely if the press says its one of the best tank in the world. it aint going to be too bad.

Lets see here, the brits had a couple hundred challengers rolling through relatively peaceful cities. The Americans have thousands of tanks rolling through the worst places in Iraq. You have taken that completely out of context.

"if u see the news, u will always hear how gd the chinese missles were. "


if we see YOUR news[/quote]

wow..the debate is hot here

PLA is making some pretty remarkable acheivements now, especailly in its upgrading of equipment

but there is something for fundemental than just arming ur troopers.

PLA is stil a party-army, not a state-army,
it is working for the communist part then the chinese government, it influences politics in china, its 30% of training time are occupied with political lessons, not only pLA has to fight external enemies, but also in case of a internal unrest, PLA has to kill civilians again like in Tiananmen in 1989....

until PLA becomes a state-army, it cant be said modernized yet

pretty simple... come to kmart... everything their is made in china. look at where computer chips and upper echelon of new tech is made?
japan, america, germany create the stronger products, and let china mass produce products that can be made cheaper.... china is chosen becuase of its better infrastructure.
look at which countries have R&D of the biggest firms like miscrosoft and cisco... countries like israel and US...
look which countries export weapons... which countries have bought chinas weps?
olympics? look which countries are top at REAL sports like boxing, wrestling, running...
152 mm turret? and? the T-72 had a 125mm turret, but got owned by 105mm turrets from merkava's...
china has some good missles to beat carriers, but this technology came from russia, as did the nuclear technology, with the exception of that taken from america by spies.

http://nobelprize.org/

find me 10 chinese winners? then go see how many americans won, or austrians, or jewish people, and compare their population %...
its all relevant...
yes you are correct, chinese students are smart, i fully agree with you, and they make for great doctors etc...but they only perform medical practices already in existence, not create new ones...
look at the most successful parts of china... hong kong? western influence... shanghai, western influence... taiwan is an economic powerhouse... why???

sure chinese invented paper, gunpower, whiskey, but this was hundreds ofyears ago, and the chinese didnt even know they invented it until western archeologists found the proof.

china is NOT a leader yet... like i said... in the future.

while, depends on where u look at china..

u look at china in 5000 years, in 1000 years, in 200 years, or in 50 years.

if in 5000 years, china achieves much much more than U.S has done..

and we already know we invented gunpowder cuz those craps are written in those tons of primary historical documents , details check either Shi Ji or Zi Zhi Tong Jian, talking about the dude who invents paper or printing things..

the problems are that chinese national defence tech starts pretty late compared to western nations, like tank, Britain invented first tank in WW1, china only starts to manufacture soviets T-59(chinese name) in 1950s something..
chinese military is still lack of sophisication and that takes years to catch up or may never catch up if, Communist party goes down someday and china falls into chaos again.

looking at the economic part, the primary problem in china is now the increasing gap between rich and poor , and how to improve the lives of nearly 800 million ppl outside cities, the developments in cities in china are remarkable and they probably got everything ppl in north america have except a better environment, cleaner air things like taht, and the cellphones in china are better than cellphones in canada , i am pretty sure of this, my phone got from china 1 year ago have just came up to market in canada and sell 1.5 time expensive

talking about modernizition of army, china 's PLA is still pretty backward,
check the global security site u will know that the bulk of chinese tanks are still t-59/69s..and its airforce are still made of 60s 70s planes,
the training is still not enough and soldiers' salary are still pretty low,
except probably the Class-A troops (7 armies plus the 7 divisions of captial troops) , other troops don't really stand a chance to win a vicotry for china in front of western forces.

the fundemental defence docrine of PLA has been evolving since 1949,
starts with People's war (human waves u can say), to People's war under mordern condition to Limited war (regional war) to today's Regional war under high-tech...the basic strategy for PLA is still called Active Defence, (still Mao's theory).

we can have a prospect of a strong PLA probably after 2020, IF, communist party is still in power and the slow democratic evolution is still taking place

I couldn't help but reply to this post

i find it hard to believe that the chinese built any single military vehicle on their own... im sorry but chinese replicate basically all of their weapons...

Why do you find it hard to believe the Chinese build military vehicles on their own? Is it because you don't believe the Chinese are capable of inventing? Money problems?

look at which countries have R&D of the biggest firms like miscrosoft and cisco... countries like israel and US...

Do you know that the most succesful Microsoft R&D "station" is? Beijing, China.

they are not leading in any form of technology that i know of. this is relevant not only in their military, but also in their economies products and their intellectuals (look how many chinese people won nobel prizes for 1/6th of the worlds population)...

Read what I have up above. Chinese economy has only developed recently when compared to the American economy, we have made startling progress when you look at the timeframe.