Originally Posted by Sukio

It is sometimes hard to believe, but it is true, we are dealing arms like we are foreign aid. It sometimes seems to contradict our morals, if we mean well, which, indeed the public seems to. Then why are we giving the means to people to arm up and spread violence?

Every time a international arms fair (the military kind)opens up, the U.S. is almost always one of the top proprietors there. But, with every item, and key competent a military weapon or system sold. That means we have to now out do ourselves, in order to stay ahead of the market. Basically, almost like a self inflicted blow.

It shows how our (quoted earlier) economy can rebound , and balance military funding with the many other government organizations in our nation. If you can afford to throw your top technology around, for all to see. Only to out do yourself in under a decade. Then you are a militarized state or nation. Now, I'm not saying that we sell all our technology, especially our aerospace systems.

And, how long we can last like this? I don't know, but, this nation, accounts for allot of other misc. things that can be linked to this, in fact, we produce the most garbage than any nation in the world. That means, we can afford a packaged society, everything in the states is packaged, everything.

2nd, we are the most, polluting nation in the world, meaning that, we accord for a large percentage of the world's air and water pollution. What does that say about our nation? (we are industrialized)

And last, this nation is the world's biggest consumer on fossil fuels. Which, means, much of our society can afford oil products , like automobiles, outside of industry. Which means, our citizens have a generally higher quality of life than those of some other nations. (no international offense)

All in all, we are industrialized, and rich, and have been for years. Coupled that with a undeniable, active military history. And experience, then you've got yourself with one thriving war machine, and thus, a thriving arms market.

Frankly, I cant think of any other way to word it....

Everyone knows the US deals arms. Iran-Contra? We also leave tons of weapons oversea's after conflicts, we dumped hundreds of M60A1's and M48A5's into the ocean on there way to Veitnam when the war ended.

The US does not export current systems. Just because we export doesn't mean its our best stuff. Examples are our F-14 Tomcats and M1's we've exported tio places like Egypt and Iran. All we have to do is end encrypted links to GPS/NAV, stop sending spare parts, plus just because some Middle East coutry has IPM1's doesn't mean they can stank up against M1A2 SEP or an F-14A to an F-14D.


Actually China produces more waste than the US. The US is one of few countries that actually have a government entity to protect the enviorment, even the US Army and Navy have eniormental divisions.
China dumps all its waste into it's rivers. (And if we want to talk about pollution look at Chernobyl, that was a mess and talk about pollution)

No actually the South Pacific consumes more fossil fuels.
http://www.nef1.org/ea/eastats.html

Originally Posted by Grimmy

Is there a way we can patent and implace this mindset into others??

No place to look for an answer except in the mirror. If you aint got it, no one's fault but yours. If you tolerate weakness and enemy sympathizers around you then you are guilty of allowing treason to prosper. If you hold back from confronting traitors where ever, when ever for whatever reason then you have given into the same cowardice that provides this filth it's growth medium.

Back to the topic...

The US of A is not, traditionally, a military oriented nation. It was our former custom to raise an army at need and then disband most of it once that need passed.

Going into WW2, we had a very small military with almost no potential for sustained force projection. The only exception to that was our navy.

What changed and caused us to "go big" was the long stand off with the soviets after WW2. There was a need for massive military build up, force restructure, and continual arms development. We were able to rise to that because of the unique combination of traits and infrastructure existed within us as persons and as a nation.

China as a potential is so egg shell thin in infrastructure and population/social stability that there's not going to be anything there in any sustainable way for at least another 25 years.
France should not be considered as an independant nation for this discussion, but as part of the EU. The EU has and will have the infrastructure and the education base but what they wont have is the bone deep imaginative adaptation and problem solving in research and development that comes from what is often labeled "entrepreneurial spirit".

I'll give this one example.
We were heading to war in Afghanistan. There was much discussion in the news on the caves and tunnels that our troops would have to fight in to dig out the evil scum we were at war with.
A lady, who happend to be a scientist and also happened to be the boss of a research lab listened to some of those bobble heads on TV and she came up with an idea.
That idea was thermobaric munitions.
She made some calls. She started the process rolling just in case it got cleared for development and funding.
3 months later, her idea was being dropped on tunnel and cave entrances and killing the enemy without our troops having to go spelunking to close hand to hand with the enemy in the darkness.

This lady wasn't born in the US. She was a refugee from Vietnam but she had what makes us unique and she had it in spades.

This is the thing that the EU will not be able to match. Anyone thinking our military procurement and distribution systems are fubar, wait until there's something approaching equal size, mass and complexity to compare it against. Only then will the true amazement of what we can do be made apparent.

Britain could do it but as was said above only really lacks in population base. Unfortunately, Britain will never have the option to rise to greatness as it is slowly swallowed up by the EU.

The US is a military oriented nation. It's how we came about. It's people however are not as a whole military oriented.

Just felt like pointing out that you don't have to be born here to be an American.

Yes I'm aware of the BLU-118/B.

Originally Posted by FO Seaman

Everyone knows the US deals arms. Iran-Contra? We also leave tons of weapons oversea's after conflicts, we dumped hundreds of M60A1's and M48A5's into the ocean on there way to Veitnam when the war ended.

The US does not export current systems. Just because we export doesn't mean its our best stuff. Examples are our F-14 Tomcats and M1's we've exported tio places like Egypt and Iran. All we have to do is end encrypted links to GPS/NAV, stop sending spare parts, plus just because some Middle East coutry has IPM1's doesn't mean they can stank up against M1A2 SEP or an F-14A to an F-14D.


Actually China produces more waste than the US. The US is one of few countries that actually have a government entity to protect the enviorment, even the US Army and Navy have eniormental divisions.
China dumps all its waste into it's rivers. (And if we want to talk about pollution look at Chernobyl, that was a mess and talk about pollution)

No actually the South Pacific consumes more fossil fuels.
http://www.nef1.org/ea/eastats.html

Consider the past however, Im talking before the green movenement, add up all our years as a industrilized nation, and, you've got it.

But, don't want to go off topic here.

Originally Posted by Sukio

Consider the past however, Im talking before the green movenement, add up all our years as a industrilized nation, and, you've got it.

But, don't want to go off topic here.

Well yes before the green movment, but it wasn't know that it was damaging back then.

Originally Posted by FO Seaman

The US is a military oriented nation. It's how we came about. It's people however are not as a whole military oriented.

Just felt like pointing out that you don't have to be born here to be an American.

Yes I'm aware of the BLU-118/B.

No we were not a military oriented nation and that is not how we came about.

We did "come about" in a revolutionary war and almost immediately disarmed afterwards. By the war of 1812, we had almost no standing army. It was even in our constitution that no army would ever be kept for more than a two year period.

Prior to the cold war we had one solid tradition concerning the military and that was to demilitarize as quickly as possible after a war. The cold war changed that. That was the first time the US kept a large standing military other than navy. Navy has long been in a separate category due to the necessity of having a navy to ensure safe trade.

Every time our country has downsized our military, it has ended up bitin us in the backside. We've got to have a strong military, too many jealous folks out there that want what we got and the weaker we are, the more bold they will be.

Oh, to answer the question, I think China (at least) is probably spending more than we are, at least in regards to military spending.

Originally Posted by Sukio

More Irony in the decline of the British military, they were once a world super power.

And still could be, but a hallmark of most Commonwealth nations is that the military is subordinate to the civilian government, (we won't mention some of our smaller member states, who nations lie in a continent where elephants and giraffes feature prominently)...

It's a plain fact that the Empire bankrupted itself defending against the Germans in both World Wars and the Great Depression certainly didn't help...

Nowadays, our politicians, (Australia, UK, all over the shop), are only interested in spending money to benefit their own particular agendas and with most of them leaning towards the left of the political spectrum, not nearly enough is doled out to keep military forces in anything like the shape they should be in.......... But being democratic nations, it's pretty hard to get this attitude to change, (unless the enemy are on the doorstep and then the tune changes pretty damn quick... )