Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

For rifles I'm for the classic design. For CQB I think that the FN P90 takes the cake.

Well, I'm with you in theory that I'd actually like to see standard rifles issued for "general" army units and carbines for MOUT fighting. However, I think it would be a better expenditure of money to have one rifel to do the job, which is why I like bullpup designs.

The other remedy is the compactness in the XM-8s flexibility. You can do the same thing as having two weapons by switching out a shorter stock and barrel in the same XM-8 you used in the field before being deployed to the big city.

Originally Posted by Whispering Death

Yes, but fighting in buildings and out of Humvees is the way wars are wom now-a-days. There arn't big maneuvers around pastures and farmhouses anymore.

That right? I reckon 2/3 Marines who operate up in the Kunar province in Afghanistan might disagree with you there.

Yes, but searching caves is a pretty specialized task that is not going to be the norm in warfare over the next century. you surely will not disagree.

I'm not saying there are never going to be situations where a long rifle is prefreable, in fact a long rifle has proven to be an excellent weapon through the test of time.

But the fact is that by 2010 75% of the world's population is going to live in cities. You don't have to clear country roads or nameless patches of ground anymore and when you do it's usually going to be done out of a humvee or other such vehicle.

Originally Posted by Whispering Death

Well, I'm with you in theory that I'd actually like to see standard rifles issued for "general" army units and carbines for MOUT fighting. However, I think it would be a better expenditure of money to have one rifel to do the job, which is why I like bullpup designs.

The other remedy is the compactness in the XM-8s flexibility. You can do the same thing as having two weapons by switching out a shorter stock and barrel in the same XM-8 you used in the field before being deployed to the big city.

Yes but what prevents a soldier from changing his upper on the M16 to and M4, or vise versa?

Originally Posted by Whispering Death

Yes, but searching caves is a pretty specialized task that is not going to be the norm in warfare over the next century. you surely will not disagree.

I'm not saying there are never going to be situations where a long rifle is prefreable, in fact a long rifle has proven to be an excellent weapon through the test of time.

But the fact is that by 2010 75% of the world's population is going to live in cities. You don't have to clear country roads or nameless patches of ground anymore and when you do it's usually going to be done out of a humvee or other such vehicle.

I'm not talking about searching caves.

Your assertion seems to be that 'open country' conventional land operations are a thing of the past. Is that is based on what you know of the nature of operations being conducted in OIF right now?
If so then you are being extremely short sighted with regards to possible future operations.
MOUT have been conducted for thousands of years. It would be a huge mistake to predict future warfare based on the operations being conducted at present.

Yes but what prevents a soldier from changing his upper on the M16 to and M4, or vise versa?

The mean looking chick with facial hair and sergeants stripes sitting behind the armorers desk.

Fn f2000 unique, bullpup rifle with forward ejection.

It definately looks like a space weapon

Originally Posted by Forrest_Gump

The mean looking chick with facial hair and sergeants stripes sitting behind the armorers desk.

LOL. Ouch.

Well, I think Bullpup is the way to go in the near future. Singapore has developed a very good Bullpup rifle named SAR21. They are going to replace the M-16 and AR-15 they are using now to SAR21!

Bullpup's great if you don't have to retrain a million people that have been trained on standard-style weapons...then it just gets painful.