Originally Posted by Whispering Death

Clinton... god, well, we ellected an Arkansas governor because he was good at playing a saxaphone and we're surprised he's in over his head in foreign affairs?

At least he knew when not to meddle too much domestically and, let's face it, he'll never be as much of a life-long embarassment as Carter has been.

I still cant find it in my heart to forgive Carter for the gifts of a massive truck plant at Kamaz (produces the truck beds that the SSB-21 nuke was mounted on) and the IBM mainframe to the Chinese univerity in Peking (placed on the same floor that HQ'd the military division that controled the ICBMs and was strictly offlimits to any and all students and university staff).

and in an effort to be more or less on topic..

Clinton is a bad bad man.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Or worse the current situation in a sitting US President knowing full well that there was no evidence to link Saddam to Niger Yellowcake went ahead and presented this as fact during the State of the Union in order to trick the American people into believing their lives were in danger.

Just a liiiiittle thing: President Bush never presented a "Saddam-Niger Wellowcake" during the State of the Union. Niger was mentioned on documents that the White House deliberately chose to ignore. Bush relied on sources that didn't mention Niger. Just to dot your i's.

Originally Posted by Italian Guy

Just a liiiiittle thing: President Bush never presented a "Saddam-Niger Wellowcake" during the State of the Union. Niger was mentioned on documents that the White House deliberately chose to ignore. Bush relied on sources that didn't mention Niger. Just to dot your i's.

the Niger government has also directly stated that Saddam's people did try to arrange "trade" to include that very same radioactive material.

IG

Dont want to get too far off subject, but you are mistaken.

Here is a transcript of the 2003 State of the Union, Part 8. Quote:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium (yellowcake) from Africa".

Right there, he lied. Bush knew that was a false claim because Wilson told him so a few months before.

Whole speach is here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLIT...t.8/index.html

Originally Posted by mmarsh

DTOP

All politicians lie, including the good ones. The difference is what they lie about. Yes Lewinsky and the drug thing was stupid and quite obvious. I refer to it as 'lawyering' which means take a very simple concept such as sex with a women and try and dissect it so much that it sounds like something else.

Don't overlook the fact that he was under oath when he lied and was impeached for his trouble. I call that a little more than a fib.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

IG
Dont want to get too far off subject, but you are mistaken.
Here is a transcript of the 2003 State of the Union, Part 8. Quote:
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium (yellowcake) from Africa".
Right there, he lied. Bush knew that was a false claim because Wilson told him so a few months before.

So you were wrong when you said Bush "presented a link between Saddam and Niger". He said Baghdad had been trying to acquire uranium from various African countries, on his Speech on the State of the Union Jan 28, 2003. "Sought to acquire", not "bought", or "was buying". There were documents fabricated in France and French services fervently believed that Saddam had been trying to buy uranium from Niger. But Bush never used information contained in those documents. I prompt you to read the independent and bipartisan reports of Lord Butler in UK and the Intelligence Commission Senate Report in Washington DC. (posted this somewhere else too).
I think I can discuss it for 30 more days.

IG

You are mixing up two different cases. There was another uranium case concerning false docs (and they were forged in the ME) in Nigeria (I believe) but that was a totally seperate (much earlier) case. I am talking about the Wilson Report that was presented at the end of 2002.

Isnt that nitpicking just alittle?

Bush said
Saddam + sought/tried to buy/tried to acquire (all the same to me) + uranium + from Africa (unless there info thats still classfied, he was talking about Niger).

PM if you want to discuss further, I dont want to annoy the Mods...

Missileer

Thats true, and like I said it wasn't the worlds smartest thing to do. But this all goes back to sex, had it been National Security I would supported a conviction. Again, ask yourself if you really thought you could lie your way out of admitting an affair in front for 4 Billion People (and thus spare yourself and family enormous embarrasement) would you? I would have. So I dont fault him for it.

I do fault him from getting himself into this situation in the first place, but poor judgement is not a crime.

Ok you're right we've been hijacking the thread a little. Will PM you on that.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

I do fault him from getting himself into this situation in the first place, but poor judgement is not a crime.

I think the crime was to lie under oath to a Federal Judge.
And no, I wouldn't lie to a Grand Jury under any circumstances.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...1198.htm#full1

On August 17, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth before a Federal grand jury of the United States. Contrary to that oath, William Jefferson Clinton willfully provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury concerning one or more of the following: (1) the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee; (2) prior perjurious, false and misleading testi mony he gave in a Federal civil rights action brought against him; (3) prior false and misleading statements he allowed his attorney to make to a Federal judge in that civil rights action; and (4) his corrupt efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and to impede the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action.

In doing this, William Jefferson Clinton has undermined the integrity of his office, has brought disrepute on the Presidency, has betrayed his trust as President, and has acted in a manner subversive of the rule of law and justice, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore, William Jefferson Clinton, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.

Missileer, if they set the hounds on Bush they'll probably catch him on a lie or two also. But twisting info about a from an intern and a complete war with tens of thousands dead....... It isn't exactly the same ball park, is it?

Mod edit: I'm getting really tired of editing your language. Use better judgement.