Topic: Best tanks, Allies or Axis? 3

godofthunder9010 · October 12th, 2004

It was there tactical and operational superiority where they really outshone all opposition. Consider the invasion of the Soviet Union. The fact that Germany had 3500 or so tanks to Russia's 20,000+ is, on the surface, a hopeless struggle. Many of those Russian tanks were outdated, but so too were many of the German tanks. Germany, according to the numbers, should have been decimated, yet it was them that wrought havock on the Russian tanks and destroying 15,000 minimum in the first 6 months.

The German armor was coordinated and constantly in direct wireless radio contact with all other tanks in the unit. Orders could be carried out quickly and efficiently. Superior tank designs were consistently outkilled by them throughout WW2.

Patriot_1989tobeyond · October 12th, 2004

The Panzer was good, but so was the American Sherman, and The Matilda.

godofthunder9010 · October 12th, 2004

The USA's best - the Sherman, was a decent design considering that the USA had (for the most part) trashcanned the whole idea of tanks in their army prior to '39. But the fact of the matter is, a Sherman had to score a lucky shot on a Tiger I to kill it. Most direct hits simplly bounced off. The Tiger I, on the other hand, came equipped with the highly effective 88mm. Most hits from that were lethal to a Sherman.

In repairability and multitasking, the Sherman was a suberb tank. Some say that that the T-34/80 was vastly superior, but IMHO this advantage was only slight. Stuka pilots preferred going after the T-34/80 as it machine guns were not nearly as problematic as those on the Sherman.

Uncle_Sam · October 13th, 2004

USA/Germany

My money is on Sherman Firefly against panther,
Pershing against Tiger I
Tiger king..... Air Force...LOL
T-95 against Mouse...

Doppleganger · October 13th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle_Sam

USA/Germany

My money is on Sherman Firefly against panther,
Pershing against Tiger I
Tiger king..... Air Force...LOL
T-95 against Mouse...

I'd take your bet re the Sherman Firefly v Panther. In fact I'd bet my house and the shirt off my back on it too. And my first born.

Pershing was a better tank than the Tiger 1, but then it should have been given the fact that it was developed later.

King Tiger had so much potential.

The Maus was a joke.

godofthunder9010 · October 13th, 2004

There were lots of designs that were latecomers ... most of which DID NOT affect the outcome of the war. Of those that were very relevant to the War's outcome - so we're only counting tank designs that saw at least 3 years of WW2 service - the Tiger I was unbeatable 1v1. If anyone can think of an exception, please do share.

The Other Guy · October 17th, 2004

I can't think of one. the Tiger was a great tank.

redcoat · October 21st, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle_Sam

My money is on Sherman Firefly against panther,

I'd take your bet re the Sherman Firefly v Panther. In fact I'd bet my house and the shirt off my back on it too. And my first born.

.

The Panther was a better tank than the Sherman Firefly, but I wouldn't go so far as betting my first born on it.
Because thanks to its 17 pdr gun, the Firefly could KO a Panther at up to a 1,000 yards.
In a battle between a Firefly and a Panther the winner would tend to be the one who scored a hit first.
In a single tank battle near Caen in Normandy a Firefly KO'd 3 Panthers.

SHERMAN · October 21st, 2004

Hmmm, Id go with the Panther agains the firefly, if we are alking about the later modles of the Panther(which is only fair seing the FF is a late model of the Sherman...)

Would take Pershing over Tiger I...Probably equal to KunigTiger.

Id like to mention that if you count the Pershing in, than we really must discuss the Centurion and the T44. This makes it very diffecult for me....On the whole, Id say that, apart fromthe very last stages of the war, the Germans were superior, with their Tigers and Panthers. The Russians came a close second with the T34/88 and Stalin III...Americans were a very far 3rd, with the Sherman...

godofthunder9010 · October 21st, 2004

How many Pershings were actually deployed in World War II? I know that it was during WW2 that the USA realized they needed something better, but I'm not certain how much use the Pershing saw in that war.

As I said, there were a good number of latecomers and the outcome was already obvious by the time they were deployed. I believe that the Tiger II and T44 probably fall into that category, as does the Pershing.

October 12th, 2004	Post 21
godofthunder9010 Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	It was there tactical and operational superiority where they really outshone all opposition. Consider the invasion of the Soviet Union. The fact that Germany had 3500 or so tanks to Russia's 20,000+ is, on the surface, a hopeless struggle. Many of those Russian tanks were outdated, but so too were many of the German tanks. Germany, according to the numbers, should have been decimated, yet it was them that wrought havock on the Russian tanks and destroying 15,000 minimum in the first 6 months. The German armor was coordinated and constantly in direct wireless radio contact with all other tanks in the unit. Orders could be carried out quickly and efficiently. Superior tank designs were consistently outkilled by them throughout WW2. __________________ "It is well that war is so terrible, else we should grow too fond of it." - General Robert E. Lee Warning, critical pebkac error in the iD10t!! pebkac\wtflolurpwnzd\snafuroflmao.exe called iD10t, iD10t failed to respond!! System in danger!! "It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am NOT a big man." -Chevy Chase

October 12th, 2004	Post 22
Patriot_1989tobeyond Centurion	The Panzer was good, but so was the American Sherman, and The Matilda. __________________ Im cool if you dont agree with me, but, DO NOT get in my face and cocky, and DO NOT insult people, especially leaders!! no matter how much yo hate their guts, no-ones got any right to be haughty!

October 13th, 2004	Post 24
Uncle_Sam Centurion	USA/Germany My money is on Sherman Firefly against panther, Pershing against Tiger I Tiger king..... Air Force...LOL T-95 against Mouse... __________________ American Military Community

October 17th, 2004	Post 27
The Other Guy Spam King Gear	I can't think of one. the Tiger was a great tank. __________________ "What about a Guest Host?" "I'll pretend I didn't hear that."

October 21st, 2004	Post 29
SHERMAN Milforum Moderator Gear	Hmmm, Id go with the Panther agains the firefly, if we are alking about the later modles of the Panther(which is only fair seing the FF is a late model of the Sherman...) Would take Pershing over Tiger I...Probably equal to KunigTiger. Id like to mention that if you count the Pershing in, than we really must discuss the Centurion and the T44. This makes it very diffecult for me....On the whole, Id say that, apart fromthe very last stages of the war, the Germans were superior, with their Tigers and Panthers. The Russians came a close second with the T34/88 and Stalin III...Americans were a very far 3rd, with the Sherman... __________________

October 12th, 2004	Post 23
godofthunder9010 Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	The USA's best - the Sherman, was a decent design considering that the USA had (for the most part) trashcanned the whole idea of tanks in their army prior to '39. But the fact of the matter is, a Sherman had to score a lucky shot on a Tiger I to kill it. Most direct hits simplly bounced off. The Tiger I, on the other hand, came equipped with the highly effective 88mm. Most hits from that were lethal to a Sherman. In repairability and multitasking, the Sherman was a suberb tank. Some say that that the T-34/80 was vastly superior, but IMHO this advantage was only slight. Stuka pilots preferred going after the T-34/80 as it machine guns were not nearly as problematic as those on the Sherman.

October 13th, 2004	Post 26
godofthunder9010 Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	There were lots of designs that were latecomers ... most of which DID NOT affect the outcome of the war. Of those that were very relevant to the War's outcome - so we're only counting tank designs that saw at least 3 years of WW2 service - the Tiger I was unbeatable 1v1. If anyone can think of an exception, please do share.

October 21st, 2004	Post 30
godofthunder9010 Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	How many Pershings were actually deployed in World War II? I know that it was during WW2 that the USA realized they needed something better, but I'm not certain how much use the Pershing saw in that war. As I said, there were a good number of latecomers and the outcome was already obvious by the time they were deployed. I believe that the Tiger II and T44 probably fall into that category, as does the Pershing.