Give the bloke a butt stroke, bayonet thrusts are too easily parried and leave yourself fully committed and exposed. With all the webbing and body armour worn these days it's a waste of time.

WWI was the last major war where H2H combat occurred on a semi-regular basis. Both sides would Raids each others trenchs and observation points at night in order to secure prisoners.

From what I have read in soldiers experiences in fighting in the Trenches a sharpened shovel was considered a much better weapon than a bayonet.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

WWI was the last major war where H2H combat occurred on a semi-regular basis. Both sides would Raids each others trenchs and observation points at night in order to secure prisoners.

From what I have read in soldiers experiences in fighting in the Trenches a sharpened shovel was considered a much better weapon than a bayonet.

They had all types of nasty toys in WWI, the Trench Knife and Club come to mind.

Given the choice, I'd rather have been able to use a Bayonet, as that would have meant I was in a more open environment, rather than being in a Trench slugging it out to the death, with a club or shovel, or even a Trench Knife.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Always remember Murphy's First Law of Bayonet Fighting: The one with the bullet wins.

Thats why I said if your out of ammo. If your opponent still has ammo you are screwed regardless if you use your helmet, your shovel or your high end fighting knife. He will send you one or two of his dirty little helper´s while he is wondering why you wave your shovel over your head .

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

You might hear a story about some guy who used a bayonet in such and such situation not too long ago but the chances of that sort of thing happening are so incredibly remote that simply the bayonet isn't worth the weight and space it takes up.

Same goes with your first aid box in your car or when you go hiking. You wont need it most of the time or hopefully never but you would be thankfull to have it if the "worst case" happens.

These are just my opinions and I´m no hand to hand combat specialist nor was I ever (and never wanna be) in the situation that I need to fix a bayonet or use something else to defend myself in such a situation.

So no offence to anybody.

Greetz Joker

Your example with the first aid kit in camping isn't very accurate. First Aid kits come in real handy when you go camping and the possibility of having someone get a cut or an infection is actually pretty high... much higher than the chances of you using a bayonet in war in this day and age. Your example of having a first aid kit in your car IS however a good example. The difference? You can leave the first aid kit in your car and forget about it, while you have to haul the bayonet around. Sure, the bayonet alone doesn't weigh much but it's one of those things on a long list of small stuff that you'd rather be without because the added weight of all of them put together isn't insignificant. Not to mention the space it takes up.
And as for the Swiss Army knife, only a fool would use it as a weapon. If you NEED to fight close in you might as well take a swing at him with your butt stock.
In the RoK Marines we're trained to use the bayonet but it is pretty darn obvious from training - and stuff we learn about real life engagements - that we will almost never get to use the bayonet for any other reason than cutting deer or skinning fish. Most modern "war stories" involving the bayonet are legends or just plain BS.
Whatever, for me, I'd rather not bring along something that I may have like a 1/500,000 chance of using and even if the situation came, I would have alternatives in stuff I would have to bring along anyway (i.e. shovel, rifle buttstock) which would be just as effective.

@ the_13th_redneck
Ok, so it goes with everyones preferences and what he wants to carry arround that he might not need. Thats understandable for me.

@ everybody
So now I have another question. What is the differenece between a "high end fighting/combat knife" and a bayonet? Ok, a bayonet is supposed to stab and like Missileer said bayonets are made of not the best steel and don´t hold the edge at the blade like a knife made out of good steel but if you keep it sharp and choose the right design of the blade can´t you use it for both things, as a bayonet and a combat/survival/fighting knife?
What are the tasks that a C/S/F knife has to perform that a bayonet can´t? Is it only the sharp blade? Or is there still more? OK, the blade has to be dark so it don´t reflect the light and if you work with it like for example if you have to cut wood to build you a kind of dugout the blade of the bayonet maybe gets blunt/edgeless faster than the one of another knife. But you can make it sharp again with a sharpening stone like the one that is build in the scabbard of the M9. Ok, it may not sharpen your knife like a Lansky sharpening system but it will do the job in that situation.

So why is a combat/survival/fighting knife, and especially what makes a knife to a C/S/F knife, better to carry around than a bayonet. But please don´t come up with anything like a Leatherman or other tools. I mean a knife only with a handle, maybe a handguard and a blade.

I hope this is not a to detailed or stupid question.
And if the Admins think this is to much than please delet or make it´s own thread.

Greetz Joker

Well, I think you're still on the topic of a better bayonet design. The best way to explain the difference in the survival or fighting knife is that there are knife designs for special ops that may vary according to need. As far as the bayonet goes, it doesnt need and even shouldn't be made for slashing so there's no need for a sharp edge or a handle and hilt. Look at the cruciform bayonets that are used by some countries. They are cheap, easy to produce, sharp point, light to carry, long reach, but don't try to take out a sentry out with it.
A good survival knife should well balanced with a grip made of a material that won't become slippery in the water, rain, mud, or blood. It can have a shorter blade because of being used for close quarters combat. Some have hollow handles with parachute cord wrapping which can be used as a tourniquet or other needs. If a soldier needs to lighten his load by dropping his gear, the bayonet goes with it but your knife stays in your boot or in a holder on your leg or belt. The hollow handle can carry fire making materials as well as a morphine syringe or small flashlight and compass.

I had a fighting knife a few years back which had a hollow handle and inside was a small magnetic compass, a line and hook (for fishing), a rubber band with leather pad and I forget what else. An intersting implimentation on it was it had this pair of metal prongs that could be folded out and combined with the rubber band to make a sling shot (for hunting birds).
Pretty neat.
Not the kind of knife I'd want to waste attached to the tip of a rifle (where they would be subject to all kinds of abuse that good knives shouldn't be).
My fighting knife wasn't THAT great though but I guess it was okay for a 10 year old.

@Joker:
Yes, the bayonet is a personal preference.

This is the bayonet for the G36 as it is used by Spanish military for their G36E variant. It fits also for the german G36 but you have to buy it yourself.



So what do you think about this one??? It the new fightingknife that is official issued by German Army. The KM 2000 (Kampfmesser 2000 = Fightingknife 2000)

I don´t like it but like I said I´m not a hand-to-hand combat specialist.

My favorite is this one: The Gerber LMF

I can call one my own and I love it. They don´t produce them anymore and that makes them hard to find but its a great knife!!!

If´ve added a Leatherman Pst (not my favorite tool but small) to the front and a Pelican M6 Xenon flashlight to the side for when I go outdoors.


Here is a review so if you want to read just klick here http://www.alphacgsn.com/warlord/prods/gerbrlmf.htm

Greetz Joker

If your using a bayonet your Higher-ups ****ed up somewhere...