http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/...ia_terror_plot So much for the gun ban preventing things.

More information is coming out, but basically a Somalian Islamic (with Lebanese) group were in the advanced stages of an armed suicide attack on one or more Australian Army bases. The main target (3rd Brigade Holsworthy Barracks) was one of our bases with civilian unarmed security (in fact they all are) and where most soldiers would be walking or marching around unarmed. The potential carnage is too horrific to think about. Top marks to Aussie INTEL and police and a reminder that:

1. when you let such people migrate into your country don't be surprised at such actions and
2. terrorism, home and abroad, is not a George Bush / John Howard false bogeyman, but a real and continuous threat.

Originally Posted by Padre

2. terrorism, home and abroad, is not a George Bush / John Howard false bogeyman, but a real and continuous threat.

Like I said Padre, sometimes I think we should have a 1 month Military + Police ramadan where all military and police personnel take a manditory vacation. No invader will be dealt with, no 911 calls will be answered.
Actually in 1 month you'd lose the whole country so maybe even 24 hours. Of course, any act of terror or crime during that 24 hour period would be fully pardoned.
Then people will know this stuff isn't just made up. It's real.

More charged with terrorism offences in Australia (Reuters)

Another thought I've had on this is that it is probably time for ADF bases to go back to uniformed armed guards on our bases' entrances / gangways. Or at the very least to have a unit armed and ready for a quick response to any threats on all ADF bases.

We needn't sack the unarmed civilian contractors presently doing the job - they could still check ID's and do car patrols around the base and manage key access to buildings, just that in addition toi them there should be armed military / naval personnel on standby or at the gate as well. This is normal for US and probably UK et al, but we haven't had that sort of thing for many years in Australia. The Holsworthy plot is a wake up call.

Padre, it all comes down to dollars. Hence uniform were taken off that duty in the first place.
Even the Mil coppers would have dramas trying to get access and issue weapons in the event an attack was made.
I dont even know if any bases have a QRF on standby anymore?

Why would it cost anymore?
When I was in, whether or not I was goofing off at the PX or standing guard with rifle and ammo, it cost all the same for the tax payer.

Originally Posted by Warwick

Padre, it all comes down to dollars. Hence uniform were taken off that duty in the first place.
Even the Mil coppers would have dramas trying to get access and issue weapons in the event an attack was made.
I dont even know if any bases have a QRF on standby anymore?

Warwick, I don't see too great a problem on the financial side because if Digger A gets paid $60,000 p/a to work/do duties in Area Z or building X but is told instead, to do 4 hours at the front gate with his loaded F88 austeyr on a duty roster, he still costs the Commonwealth of Australia $60,000 p/a. And the maintainence of the weapon and the cost of purchasing the magazine/rounds is already budgeted for the armoury. So costs are not a factor and in fact could save money if military guards replace (some) private unarmed civilian security whose contracts cost a fair penny.

The main problem is actually knowing soldiers and sailors would HATE guard duty and so there would, I concede, be a morale problem, but there are plenty of hard-nosed RSM's and SWO's who would say "harden up Sunshine, welcome to the War on Terror."

One thing I am certain about is if a dirt-bag Islamic terrorist surveys an Aussie army base and sees unarmed civilian security staff at the gate, some of whom just wave people threw or out with a smile he's going to be less deterred from carrying out an attack than if he saw 2 - 3 armed combat trained (possibly combat hardened) soldiers with F88's at the ready. Agreed?

And if you counter argue that nothing would deter suicidal fanatics - I agree - but the suicidal fanatics wouldn't get past the front-gate with Diggers on watch, but they definately would with unarmed civilians, especially the grey haired nice old men and the not so thin or fit women that I tend to see employed by the private security firms at our bases.

Normally I'm glad we feel we have been able to employ our soldiers better on bases and leave the boring crappy mundane guard duty to civilians but this recent plot is a WAKE UP CALL, and I say we need to go back (not forever) to military guards at Aussie bases.

Last illustrative point is - how ironic and embarrassing if the plot was executed and we had a situation where NSW civilian police had to "rescue" combat trained soldiers at their own base from an armed attack !!!

Originally Posted by Padre

The main problem is actually knowing soldiers and sailors would HATE guard duty and so there would, I concede, be a morale problem, but there are plenty of hard-nosed RSM's and SWO's who would say "harden up Sunshine, welcome to the War on Terror."

Sounds like a discipline problem.
Being able to pull guard duty for hours on end is a part of training as well.

Some of the civilian guards are so lazy. They don't care about the people they are "guarding"... they aren't soldiers. The running joke is often to see what you can show them instead of an army ID to get inside. The best I've seen work has been a piece of burnt toast and an army ID card with a picture of Bin Laden taped to it. The guard just waves you through if you hold anything up. It's pathetic.

That sounds like a minor disaster and a major disaster waiting to happen.