Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones -


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February 18th, 2012   #1
Padre
 
 

Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones info




 
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February 18th, 2012   #2
MontyB
 
 
And the point is what?

Dawkin's argument is that the poll shows a lot of people that call themselves Christians do not follow or know Christian tenants not that they don't know the name of a book or is it your contention that in order to be an Atheist you must know the full title of Darwin's Origin of Species?


Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire 1694-1778

Last edited by MontyB; February 18th, 2012 at 17:36..
 
February 18th, 2012   #3
muscogeemike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
And the point is what?

Dawkin's argument is that the poll shows a lot of people that call themselves Christians do not follow or know Christian tenants not that they don't know the name of a book or is it your contention that in order to be an Atheist you must know the full title of Darwin's Origin of Species?
I believe that Darwin did not mean for his writings to be anti religious and he never mentions apes or monkeyís - or that humans descended from them. Something the religious zealots never mention and probably donít know.

But, as you said, most so called Christians donít really follow Christís teachings and donít really know the bible.
 
February 18th, 2012   #4
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogeemike
I believe that Darwin did not mean for his writings to be anti religious and he never mentions apes or monkey’s - or that humans descended from them. Something the religious zealots never mention and probably don’t know.

But, as you said, most so called Christians don’t really follow Christ’s teachings and don’t really know the bible.

I agree, there seems to be a concerted effort to tie Evolution to Atheism and the monkey/ape argument is the flag bearer for the God Squad but it is one of those interesting battles as you are correct he does not say we were descended from them but rather that we have a common ancestor.

However religion had the same issues with Galileo and I like his response a lot "The bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go".

Religion should just stick to what it knows best, offering the weak a way out and fleecing the poor.

Last edited by MontyB; February 18th, 2012 at 20:15..
 
February 19th, 2012   #5
captiva303
 
 
who is Dawkins to decide what a person beliefs are? If someone self identifies as something I wouldn't argue the point with them.


The oath to serve my country as a soldier did not include a contract for the normal luxuries and comfort enjoyed within our society. On the contrary it implied hardship, loyalty and devotion to duty regardless of rank.
 
February 19th, 2012   #6
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by captiva303
who is Dawkins to decide what a person beliefs are? If someone self identifies as something I wouldn't argue the point with them.
He isn't deciding what a persons beliefs are he is saying that there are people who don't:
- Read the Bible.
- Go to church.
- Believe Jesus was the son of god.
- Know what the first book of the new testament is.

Calling themselves Christians.

Tell me what are the prerequisites for being a Christian if it isn't believing Jesus is the son of God?
 
February 19th, 2012   #7
captiva303
 
 
True, but it is a pointless argument. If someone self identifies as such how can you say they are anything but? It comes done to the individual and what they think they are, and not what they actually believe. Perception of self will overrule any logical approach to classifying the religious .
 
February 19th, 2012   #8
senojekips
 
 
Pointless??,.... It is logic such as yours that supports the very argument you are attempting to deny.

If I choose to tell people I'm an astronomer yet I can't name half a dozen stars in the sky, no amount of "self perception" will make me an astronomer.

There's an old saying along these lines, "Going to church will no more make me a christian than sitting in a carport will make me an automobile". As was pointed out here, the same applies to most people who insist that they are "christians".

.


"I am totally responsible for what I write,... however I cannot be held responsible for your complete inability to understand"

 
February 19th, 2012   #9
captiva303
 
 
Yes pointless.

The qualifications for an astronomer are externally defined where as what a person believes is determined by themselves. Simply telling someone they don't believe in a sky fairy wont change how they identify themselves. Believe it or not they wont give a sh!t if you think they dont stack up to your definition of what they call themselves.

So yes that is a pointless argument.
 
February 19th, 2012   #10
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by captiva303
Yes pointless.

The qualifications for an astronomer are externally defined where as what a person believes is determined by themselves. Simply telling someone they don't believe in a sky fairy wont change how they identify themselves. Believe it or not they wont give a sh!t if you think they dont stack up to your definition of what they call themselves.

So yes that is a pointless argument.
It's not pointless in your case, it's self defeating.

Effectively you are saying that to be a christian you don't need to have any standards, just "a belief" that you are one? That appears to be precisely the point that MontyB was making.

Just what exactly are you trying to say?

Last edited by senojekips; February 19th, 2012 at 15:57..
 



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