About Arabs in the Israeli Army
|November 3rd, 2011||#1|
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Arabs in the Israeli Army info
|November 3rd, 2011||#2|
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That's not unusual although it is despicable, there are turncoats and traitors in every society. People who will gladly sacrifice their morals for the promise of favourable treatment.
It is known that there were an estimated 150,0000 "half Jews" in Hitlers army too, and an undisclosed number of full Jews, who kept a very low profile, for obvious reasons.
The Cover shot on the booklet "The Ideal German Soldier" featured half Jew Werner Goldberg.
Among others were people like Field Marshal Erhard Milch.
"I am totally responsible for what I write,... however I cannot be held responsible for your complete inability to understand"
Last edited by senojekips; November 3rd, 2011 at 09:06..
|November 3rd, 2011||#3|
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Adversus solem ne loquitor
|November 3rd, 2011||#4|
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The Jews serving with the Nazis were less well known about for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which, was that it would have detracted from the guilt trip, that they were trying to hang on the Allies after WWII.
I might add that personally, I feel that "guilt trip" was at least partially deserved, although not all, as England and others were very busy fighting for their own survival without which all of the European Jews would have gone through the mill.
|November 3rd, 2011||#5|
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They were described as ‘suicide soldiers’ because of their German nationality and the fact that many of them were Jewish meant they would face torture and execution if they were ever captured. Yet all of them were volunteers – not conscripts like the majority of British forces. Over the decades that followed, they became so deeply assimilated into society that they became as British as the Brits.
As many as 10,000 Germans and Austrians fled Nazi persecution and joined British forces to fight against Hitler. Neighbours, colleagues and fellow soldiers all suspected they were traitors and double agents, so life in their adopted communities was hellish, and they had to fight doubly hard to prove their dedication to the war effort. But facing these challenges, these incredible volunteers played a key part in some of the most important events of the war.
Featuring moving personal testimonies, Churchill’s German Army tells the compelling stories of these extraordinary heroes for the first time.
|November 3rd, 2011||#6|
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Its also important to consider the fact that most of the people of Jewish descent in the German army didn't consider themselves to be Jewish and were not widely regarded by others as Jews. They fell under the legal category of Mischlinge, widely translated as "halflings", under Nazi Germany's race laws. These people were often considered lesser race on the account of having a Jewish grandparent, even though Jewish law considers such persons to be non-Jews.
Britain passively aided the Holocaust when they refused to let Jewish refugees enter Palestine after the 1939 White Paper to appease the Arabs even though they had pledged to allow Jews to move here. Many Jews were turned away at the port cities here and sent straight back to certain death in Europe. Britain wasn't the only one. America didn't allow refugees from Europe in until AFTER the war. So yes, i'd say they earned a guilt trip for their complicity in murder.
|November 3rd, 2011||#7|
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Yes,... the Brits could have legally allowed the European Jews into their own country, as could many other countries which did not. So, as far as the "guilt trip" is concerned they were no better or worse than any other country that turned back the Jews.
In view of the fact that Jewish terrorism was already a huge problem within Palestine it can be strongly argued that the Brits did actually have an obligation to prevent further trouble by preventing illegal immigration to Palestine.
Last edited by senojekips; November 3rd, 2011 at 19:48..
|November 3rd, 2011||#9|
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Mr. Miller originally merely made the point that “Arabs” serve in the IDF. The discussion has gone on to one of moral’s, ethics, and loyalties.
I think we need a more clear definition of what is an “Arab”. At times I have heard all N. Africans and Middle easterners referred to as Arabs. Historically this has not been the case. N. Africans and Egyptians are not of the Arabian peninsula.
The peoples of the Arabian peninsula are Semitic, Jews are Semitic. Are not Jews then Arab?
As has been pointed out Jews served Hitler and Germans served against Hitler; in fact there were Americans in the SS. At least 1/3 of the people in what would become the U.S. remained loyal to the King during the Revolutionary War.
People with conflicted loyalties are present in all wars and conflicts through out history.
About 20% of Israel’s population are non-Jews; Arabs in Israel have equal voteing rights, and hold seats in the Knesset and high Gov positions. The same is not true in any Arab nation.
I believe the Jews have gone to some lengths to include the Palestinians who remained in Israel and when the state of Israel was established I don’t believe any non-Jews were forced out. The “Palestinians” that left did so of their own accord (probably believing that they would be treated as they would have treated the Jews if they had won), and it is worth noting that none of the Arab Nations would take many of them in.
The “Arabs” who serve in the IDF are not traitors nor are they despicable. They made a choice to defend their homes. Also they may, perhaps, see their standard of living in Israel is far better than those in Gaza - under the Palestinians.
BTW - I'm not Jewish, I am a native American. I have as much reason as the Palestinians to be bitter, the fact is I much prefer food I get from the Super Market over dog meat.
Last edited by muscogeemike; November 4th, 2011 at 18:12..
|November 3rd, 2011||#10|
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According to the 1939 Reich census, there were about 72,000 Mischlinge of the first degree, some 39,000 of the second degree, and probably tens of thousands more of higher degrees, which, however, were not recorded. (D. Bankier, in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Volume 3, Number 1 (1988), pp. 1-20.)
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