Originally Posted by senojekips

The McMahon-Hussein Agreement of October 1915 was accepted by Palestinians as a promise by the British that after World War One, land previously held by the Turks would be returned to the Arab nationals who lived in that land.

Palestine is never mentioned in the letters between Hussein and McMahon. The letter of 24th october 1915 does not mention an agreement either, it said "Great Britain is prepared to recognize...".

Wrong see above: Anyway, the Brits as administrators of Palestine, had no legal right to enter into any agreements regarding the ownership of that land with persons other than with the native population

Yes the did. The British divided the Mandate territory into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Kingdom of Hejaz

It is recognised under Terra Nullius, that the occupiers of that land,... were the Palestinian people, they therefore they owned the land and were the only people with any legitimate right to it

???????? Terra Nullis is invalid here.

Originally Posted by senojekips

In case you never realised, debate is the whole purpose of the thread otherwise we would just have people like yourself posting stupid Zionist propaganda. No,... it's no more than an attempt to see the wrong doers punished

When the truth is in favor of Israel or the Jews you cannot call that Zionist propaganda.

Being a "veteran" is no excuse for supporting a rogue State in their oppression of an innocent people who are doing no more than resisting the theft of their land. These so called "veterans" are no better than those of, say,... Robert Mugabe who feel that their status as veterans should excuse them of all need to obey international law and responsibility to their fellow man.

Israel is not listed as a rogue State , Zimbabwe is called like that by some.

You just don't get it do you, the point is not that they are fighting against their own kind it is that in this case they are supporting a murderous rogue state.

No, they are supporting the safety of their country.

There's no way that Israel will ever improve the lives of the Palestinian people. No more than the Nazis improved the lives of European Jews. I'm pretty sure that theft, hunger, beatings, gratuitous violence, disenfranchisement, second class citizenship and murder are NOT things that the Palestinians either need nor want.

In March 2010, the government approved a $216 million, five-year development plan for the Israeli Arab sector with the goal of increasing job accessibility, particularly for women and academics. Under this program, some 15,000 new employees will be added to the work roster by 2014.
Show me what Arab countries , including the PNA, have done for their Jewish population, if they were not expelled of course.

The 1917 Balfour Declaration and the UN's 1947 Partition Decree were both exercises in ultra vires, which means surpassing one's authority, and powers. The Zionists, and later the Jews of the state of Israel were successful in marketing the 1917 Balfour Declaration as the legitimizing document for their policy of illegal immigration, unilateral declaration of an exclusive state, the expropriation and takeover of Palestinian Arab lands and property and the expulsion of the majority of the Arabs of Palestine. It is difficult to imagine how a letter from a British Foreign Minister, Lord Balfour, to a British Zionist leader, Lord Rothschild, could be the legal basis for dispossessing an indigenous population in the Middle East. If anything, Balfour's letter was a political maneuver meant to further British imperial interests in the Middle East during World War II by rallying Jewish support for the Allied effort.

I take issue with “..the expulsion of the majority of Arabs from Palestine”. The history I read says that most Palestinians were not forcibly expelled, un-less they took up arms against the Jewish forces.

Most of the Palestinians left in fear of reprisal and the land that was taken from them became state property. Little land in Israel is privately owned. When these “reprisals” did not occur they tried to return and were not allowed.

Again, non-Jews in Israel (about 20% of the population) have all the rights of any Jewish citizen, and they exercise their rights. No Arab country is as open as Israel and the countries where these Palestinian refugees fled would not integrated them into their societies. This plays a large part in the problems today, that these people had no place to go. Much like, I add, the Jews - for centuries.

Originally Posted by Seehund

The 1917 Balfour Declaration and the UN's 1947 Partition Decree were both exercises in ultra vires, which means surpassing one's authority, and powers. The Zionists, and later the Jews of the state of Israel were successful in marketing the 1917 Balfour Declaration as the legitimizing document for their policy of illegal immigration, unilateral declaration of an exclusive state, the expropriation and takeover of Palestinian Arab lands and property and the expulsion of the majority of the Arabs of Palestine. It is difficult to imagine how a letter from a British Foreign Minister, Lord Balfour, to a British Zionist leader, Lord Rothschild, could be the legal basis for dispossessing an indigenous population in the Middle East. If anything, Balfour's letter was a political maneuver meant to further British imperial interests in the Middle East during World War II by rallying Jewish support for the Allied effort.

The Balfour declaration also said : "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". It was not a one sided document.
And how can you surpass authority and power when non was existend exept the British Mandate?
The immigration was legal (both Jewish and Arab). Although jewish (more) and Arab (less) illegal immigration existed.
The Jews mostly bought uninhabited land or land from absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut, before the creation of Israel
The British had a hard time in the Middle East to fulfill their promises and keeping the peace. In my point of view they tried to be as neutral as possible.

I have put you on ignore, but will answer your stupidity one last time just to highlight exactly how stupid it is.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

When the truth is in favor of Israel or the Jews you cannot call that Zionist propaganda.

All propaganda is in favour of the country that produces it. That is exactly it's purpose. It becomes propaganda when it is based in untruths and distortions, something that the whole State of Israel is based upon, starting with such classic lies as,... "God's Chosen People" "Promised to us by God". Lies based on lies and religious mumbo jumbo, can't even begin to be considered as the truth.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

Israel is not listed as a rogue State , Zimbabwe is called like that by some.

The fact that it's not "listed" does not mean that it is not. It merely means that the US has used their influence, ignoring their crimes against humanity and their complete disregard for world opinion. If it's behaviour were judged by the same standards as North Korea etc., it would be declared a Rogue State tomorrow. Condemned by any number of International agencies including UNHRC, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Courts of Justice. A record that would certainly have any other country declared a Rogue state.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

No, they are supporting the safety of their country.

Like Leon Degrelle supported the safety of his? You are not even thinking before you make these ludicrous statements are you.

What exactly are you doing,... quoting from the Standard Zionist Answers book, or have you just learned it off by heart? And yet you wonder why I can't be bothered with you?

Originally Posted by VDKMS

In March 2010, the government approved a $216 million, five-year development plan for the Israeli Arab sector with the goal of increasing job accessibility, particularly for women and academics. Under this program, some 15,000 new employees will be added to the work roster by 2014.

Tell us about the previous 60 years of theft, murder, beatings, relocation, and and second class citizenship. Don't even bother denying this, as it's been discussed and proven on this forum several times in the past with sources quoted.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

Show me what Arab countries , including the PNA, have done for their Jewish population, if they were not expelled of course.

Why should they aid and abet their enemy? It's a crime in most countries that I know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
And last but not least. I just couldn't resist this last piece of self implicating stupidity.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

The Balfour declaration also said : "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". It was not a one sided document.

Not one sided? For a start, the whole thing was based on an illegal premise, that not being enough,... the single line you so gladly quote is a perfect example of the total lack of honest intent and goodwill by those involved in this farce. Within a year of Israel' formation over 500 Palestinian villages had been deliberately wiped off the map and the majority of their occupants either murdered or driven into exile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stinian_exodus

There were probably as many as 550 Palestinian Arab villages in what is today Israel.

In close to 400 of those villages, Zionist/Israeli forces either forced the people out at gunpoint, massacred some, or the people fled in terror. Of course estimates vary according to what defines a village. If you add in towns and "localities," such as a tribal center where there was a police station, a perhaps a school and several permanent buildings, the figure rises as high as 531. However, not all of those would be counted in the 550 villages mentioned above.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/…

Originally Posted by senojekips

I have put you on ignore, but will answer your stupidity one last time just to highlight exactly how stupid it is.

All propaganda is in favour of the country that produces it. That is exactly it's purpose. It becomes propaganda when it is based in untruths and distortions, something that the whole State of Israel is based upon, starting with such classic lies as,... "God's Chosen People" "Promised to us by God". Lies based on lies and religious mumbo jumbo, can't even begin to be considered as the truth.

Truth and propaganda are two different things. "Promised to us by God" is not truth, is not propaganda but is religious stuff wich I don't believe. This is truth however : United Nations General Assembly Resolution 273 was passed on May 11, 1949 to admit the State of Israel to membership in the United Nations. It also says : Noting that, in the judgment of the Security Council, Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter.

The fact that it's not "listed" does not mean that it is not. It merely means that the US has used their influence, ignoring their crimes against humanity and their complete disregard for world opinion. If it's behaviour were judged by the same standards as North Korea etc., it would be declared a Rogue State tomorrow. Condemned by any number of International agencies including UNHRC, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Courts of Justice. A record that would certainly have any other country declared a Rogue state.

That's your interpretation, I don't share that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_state

Like Leon Degrelle supported the safety of his? You are not even thinking before you make these ludicrous statements are you.

Leon Degrelle was a Belgian who collaborated with the Germans. The Arabs in the Israeli army are Israeli citizens, like Major General Hussain Fares, commander of Israel's border police.
six Israeli Arabs received the IDF's third highest decoration, the Medal of Distinguished Service.

Tell us about the previous 60 years of theft, murder, beatings, relocation, and and second class citizenship. Don't even bother denying this, as it's been discussed and proven on this forum several times in the past with sources quoted.

I don't deny it but you are grossly exaggerating. What you mentioned above was committed by both sides.
1948 : The Arab Legion succeeded in conquering the Old City of Jerusalem, and expelled or killed the inhabitants of the Jewish Quarter.
May 13, 1948 : Kfar Etzion massacre where around 120-150 surrendering defenders were killed by Arab irregulars, with the participation of Arab Legion legionnaires.
April 13, 1948 : Hadassah medical convoy massacre : ambushed by Arab forces seventy-nine Jewish residents of the British Mandate of Palestine, mostly doctors and nurses, were killed.

And last but not least. I just couldn't resist this last piece of self implicating stupidity.
Not one sided? For a start, the whole thing was based on an illegal premise, that not being enough,... the single line you so gladly quote is a perfect example of the total lack of honest intent and goodwill by those involved in this farce. Within a year of Israel' formation over 500 Palestinian villages had been deliberately wiped off the map and the majority of their occupants either murdered or driven into exile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stinian_exodus
There were probably as many as 550 Palestinian Arab villages in what is today Israel.
In close to 400 of those villages, Zionist/Israeli forces either forced the people out at gunpoint, massacred some, or the people fled in terror. Of course estimates vary according to what defines a village. If you add in towns and "localities," such as a tribal center where there was a police station, a perhaps a school and several permanent buildings, the figure rises as high as 531. However, not all of those would be counted in the 550 villages mentioned above. http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/…

Tipically you, you say "Zionist/Israeli forces either forced the people out at gunpoint, massacred some, or the people fled in terror." but leave out the ones that stayed and the ones that fled before the arrival of the Israelis.
Approx 25% stayed. How many were expelled or fled, no one knows because it is not recorded. The destruction of villages is recorded (both Jewish and Arab). Because of the clumsy Arab attack not many Jewish villages were destroyed.
In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave:
“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.

I have a few more

"If the Arabs (Muslims) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel." Shira Sorko-Ram Maoz Israel newsletter May 2004

“In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves, or to put it more clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel.”
- Salah al-Din, Egyptian Foreign Minister
(Al-Misri, Egypt, October 11, 1949; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

Like I've said before : Know your enemy. If you attack Israel they retaliate and very hard. It's their only weapon for survival.

Palestinian leaders don't care about their people.

Violence through Indoctrination



Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to glorify “jihad” (holy war), violence, death and child martyrdom almost from birth, as an essential part of their culture and destiny. As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced in 1998, a “Sesame Street”-like children’s program called the “Children’s Club” — complete with puppet shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters — focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a passion for engaging in and celebrating violence against them in a perpetual “jihad” until the day the Israeli flags come down from above “Palestinian land” and the Palestinian flag is raised.

That are your beloved Palestinians!

Originally Posted by VDKMS

.That are your beloved Palestinians!

They are only that way to Israel and her supporters.
I'll bet that you still haven't worked out why they are that way, have you?
You treat people like animals, they will act like animals, and with very good reason.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

.That are your beloved Palestinians!

They are only that way to Israel and her supporters. I'll bet that you still haven't worked out why they are that way, can you? You are an idiot of the first order.

You treat people like animals, they will act like animals, and with very good reason.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

.That are your beloved Palestinians!

They are only that way to Israel and her supporters.

I'll bet that you still haven't worked out why they are that way, can you? You are an idiot of the first order.
If anyone treated my people as the Israelis treat the Palestinians I would be exactly the same.

Israeli Settlers Beating Old Palestinian Woman - YouTube

Israeli Settlers Beating Old Palestinian Woman - YouTube

These are your peaceful Israelis driving people of their own land as they always have.