The situation with Hiroshima and Nagasaki was entirely different, it was done to END a war (thereby saving estimated millions of lives) rather than done out of an irrational hatred and bigotry (yes) in claimed retribution for basically simply existing and having influence.
And you have mentioned the "brainwashing" of Americans before and insinuated it in your last post, how are you not showing how brainwashed you yourself are by immediately believing anything negative you are told about the United States? Are you so blinded by your cynicism and hatred for America that you cannot believe that anything we do benefits anyone else?

chewie, the only part of your post I have not responded to is the news show timetable. Nice stopwatch work, I'm proud of you, but I haven't had the chance nor the inclination to do my own yet, and if you are going to repost every post you make until I have categorically responded to every demand you make, you should save yourself the energy. You and Monty seem to be bent on, as I mentioned before, a course of pointing fingers at where the strong have stumbled. It might be a fun hobby, but I fail to see how it helps anyone.

Originally Posted by Redneck

chewie, the only part of your post I have not responded to is the news show timetable. Nice stopwatch work, I'm proud of you, but I haven't had the chance nor the inclination to do my own yet, and if you are going to repost every post you make until I have categorically responded to every demand you make, you should save yourself the energy. You and Monty seem to be bent on, as I mentioned before, a course of pointing fingers at where the strong have stumbled. It might be a fun hobby, but I fail to see how it helps anyone.

sweet as...don't blow a gusset there pardner, just thought it would be pretty easy to do a rough estimate (as i have)

me and monty have have an opinion...it happens to be very similar, i think we make a good case to be honest.
as this is a forum for discussing things like this, and for the exchanging of ideas...i don't think it's out of place.

anyway...i'm not going to lose any sleep over this...beddie by's for me...catcha tomorrow redneck

Either way just consider this when u think Iraq was about oil 100%.
It's not economically logical. Why wage war which is expensive when u can buy out their governmetn when that's cheap as dirt compared to war? Why????
Okay maybe I'm a bit passionate right now because I've had a few drinks but really ask yourself this
cheaper, less politically controversial option 1
more expensive, more controversial, anti americanism will have an orgasm option 2.
WHICH???
Come on guys. This is almost too easy.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Either way just consider this when u think Iraq was about oil 100%.
It's not economically logical. Why wage war which is expensive when u can buy out their governmetn when that's cheap as dirt compared to war? Why????
Okay maybe I'm a bit passionate right now because I've had a few drinks but really ask yourself this
cheaper, less politically controversial option 1
more expensive, more controversial, anti americanism will have an orgasm option 2.
WHICH???
Come on guys. This is almost too easy.

who are you talking to?

Originally Posted by chewie_nz

the reason the attack(s) on the WTC happened were because of his anger at US troops being stationed in saudi arabia (the holy land) during the first gulf war. he was trained by the US so i don't think that "irrational hate and bigotry" didn't come into it. from his point of view ( as someone who was used by the US as a tool against the russians, and then saw his own land defiled by "infidels) i don't think his hate is irrational at all

To put a point on it. US Forces were/are Stationed in Saudi Arabia at the pleasure of the House of Saud. The ruling Familiy of Saudi Arabia. No troops were/are permitted in Mecca or Medina per the agreement. Bin Laden is not a member of the Saud family he has no ruling stature. So when he appoarched the Monarchy in 91 about not allowing the Coalition Forces into Saudi Arabia and being allowed to form a Mujihdeen /taliban type group to fight Saddam in Kuwait he was told thanks but no thanks. By the Goverment of Saudi Arabia. Thats the slap in the face to Bin Laden .

Regardless of what Bin Laden thinks he swings no weight with the Saudi Goverment.

Cowards die a thousand deaths but the brave only die once. That pretty much sums up how I feel about this topic and some of the people posting in it. You can sit on your ass bitching and crying or you can step up to the plate and do something about it.

Originally Posted by chewie_nz

me and monty have have an opinion...it happens to be very similar, i think we make a good case to be honest.
as this is a forum for discussing things like this, and for the exchanging of ideas...i don't think it's out of place.

anyway...i'm not going to lose any sleep over this...beddie by's for me...catcha tomorrow redneck

I am unsure as to why "me and monty" feel abused because of your opinions. I'm glad neither of you are going to lose sleep because I happen to disagree with you, but, as I already told Monty, in the future I need you to refrain from making woe-is-me posts about how good of an arguer you are. Post your arguments and do not clutter the forum with off topic posts about how you feel your arguments are not being taken as seriously as you think they should be.

Thank you and good night, pard.

Originally Posted by Big_Z

Cowards die a thousand deaths but the brave only die once. That pretty much sums up how I feel about this topic and some of the people posting in it. You can sit on your ass bitching and crying or you can step up to the plate and do something about it.

Actually this topic was relationeted with the sistemic violation of the human rights that is going on in Irak and Guantanamo. The cowards are the ones that use their superiority position to humillate people that are tied up and without anydefense, that´s being a coward. If you think that you are going to stop terrorism with torture i think that you are not following that right way. The only thing that you are gonna get is more fanatism & hate to US. I understand that using the force is the only way sometimes, but I am not sure that all people in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib were terrorist.....

[/quote]

Originally Posted by staurofilakes

Actually this topic was relationeted with the sistemic violation of the human rights that is going on in Irak and Guantanamo. The cowards are the ones that use their superiority position to humillate people that are tied up and without anydefense, that´s being a coward. If you think that you are going to stop terrorism with torture i think that you are not following that right way. The only thing that you are goanna get is more fanatism & hate to US. I understand that using the force is the only way sometimes, but I am not sure that all people in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib were terrorist.....

[/quote]

Do you honestly think we pick these guys up off the streets because they are of arab descent? The CIA is probably the most knowledgable organization in existence, if they pick somebody up there is going to be a damn good reason...... Last time I checked the CIA wasn't going after people for check fraud and petty theft...

Originally Posted by staurofilakes

Actually this topic was relationeted with the sistemic violation of the human rights that is going on in Irak and Guantanamo. The cowards are the ones that use their superiority position to humillate people that are tied up and without anydefense, that´s being a coward. If you think that you are going to stop terrorism with torture i think that you are not following that right way. The only thing that you are gonna get is more fanatism & hate to US. I understand that using the force is the only way sometimes, but I am not sure that all people in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib were terrorist.....



/quote]

So we should release all the detainees on a promise they won't do anything. Or take a cue from Madrid and surrender? Wheres my Pax card?

Lets see the last accusation from Gitmo that was really big news was that Female interrogators were questioning detainees in T-shirts and OMG rubbing against them! Horror of horrors!

I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.