So do we expect that sometime soon Aussies will be rounded up and exterminated and New Zealand must be well overdue as we have had gun control of decades now.

So what you are saying is that gun control leads to dictatorships, sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing?

There is a pretty big jump in the logic process going on to link all these events to gun control still I could probably link them to an increase in green houses gases if I looked hard enough, however I will let the Aussies argue the validity the Australian crime statistics you have presented.

Also if armed societies are are safe societies them places like Baghdad and Mogadishu should be the safest cities on earth.

Originally Posted by MontyB

But this is not the point being made, it has been stated that criminals are cowards who when confronted run away I am simply pointing out that some don't using the example of police shootings as an example, basically being armed is no guarantee that criminals will not attack you therefore the "armed society" model is flawed unless you are prepared to attack first and then it just becomes a dangerous, paranoid and scared society.

Perhaps myself or Officer 5.56 should have qualified the remark about the level of cowardice in criminals. So I'll go ahead and do that now.

The majority of criminals I deal with on a daily basis. Lets say 99.7 % are cowards. They choose to prey on the weak and those who have little chance of defending themselves. They do not want to deal with victims who might fight back.

Yes that.3 % is out there. They are the dedicated thug bangers and bangettes, dealers moving major federal time wieght, Third strike parolees, and scumbags who just committed a crime thats probably gonna earn them the needle.

These people (term used loosely) will always have guns and be willing to use them. If you collected all the guns in the US took them to a smelter and turned them into school lockers. These guys would have guns. They'd get them they'd have them they would use them.

Thats the problem with gun control. It punishes the law biding. They can't have guns. The scumbags who didn't obey the law in the first place don't care they still have them.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Thats the problem with gun control. It punishes the law biding. They can't have guns. The scumbags who didn't obey the law in the first place don't care they still have them.

I certainly don't disagree with you but I don't think that the answer is to hand out pistols with birth certificates and this is the point that Spike made right back at the start of this thread...

The biggest problem that i see will be trying to get sensible change. The harder the NRA push in one direction, the harder their opponents are going to push against them, consequently the argument becomes highly radicalised. If this attitude continues, and I'm sure that it will, the outcome, what ever way it goes, will not be good.

As a firearms owner and collector(and in this country it takes a lot of work to maintain a collectors license) I would hate to have to turn them in but given the choice of seeing everyone wandering the streets armed to the teeth or no one having them I will take no one any day and I think you will find that thinking in the US is not all that different.
My personal opinion is that change is coming and your choice is to come up with a viable and working system now or have someone create a system for you, I know which I would prefer.

03USMC, you are absolutely correct when you say that the criminals will always have guns, as far as I'm concerned there is no solution to this. What I can't agree on is having every person in the country walking around all tooled up. It's a disaster looking for a place to happen. It could certainly give a whole new meaning to "road rage" for example. I can already see it, "I thought he was going to shoot me,... so I shot him first". Whereas, if neither of them were armed, it just couldn't happen.

Neither of the radical solutions are going to be of any real use, I see the answer as lying somewhere in the middle ground.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Thats the problem with gun control. It punishes the law biding. They can't have guns. The scumbags who didn't obey the law in the first place don't care they still have them.

i am law abiding.

i live in a country with gun control


i own firearms



????



the only difficulty that i had in gaining the ability to get said firearm, was to prove i wasn't a nutbar, wouldn't accidently shoot myself through not knowing which end did what, and having the facilities to safely store it.


the reason so many of your criminals have guns, is because your whole country has such easy access to them

Originally Posted by Infern0

i am law abiding.




the reason so many of you criminals have guns, is because your whole country has such easy access to them

You Criminals?????


I go to a couple LE related sites that are international in nature. Lot of UK Coppers on one of them. The UK is murder on gun ownership and yet the Cop's are saying that their fire arms related crimes are going up. The criminals are getting acess to illegally imported (smuggled) guns. That in a country that has strict fire arms ownership laws.

My Uncle and Cousin are members of the Mexican Judical Police. Mexico has strict gun ownership laws. And yet they are out gunned by Narco-Traffickers.

Gun control doesn't control the criminal element no matter how strict your laws are. They will have them.

How many of these sites are advocating making firearms easier to get for the masses though?

I also think it is wrong to use organisations such as drug cartels as examples of a failing system as they are backed by millions if not billions of dollars and if weapons controls were removed entirely they would be better armed than most armies, your average criminal doesn't quite have the same resources.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

You Criminals?????

whoops


obviously i meant australians



*skulks away*

Judging from the debate so far, I'd say that, gun ownership in the USA will completely self destruct, within the next 20 years. If concealed carry laws are bought in, halve or quarter that time frame from the time of inception.

A few more high school killing sprees or sniper attacks and it could change a whole lot sooner.

You know those illegals you see everywhere in the southern states? Yeah, it's that easy to get a weapon into the country. And those giant cargo ships. You really think they check every single part of every single container? Not too many years ago I remember reading about a guy in New York City who had somehow attained a Bundeswehr G36. So, I still think that restricting firearms in the hands of citizens is a bad idea. You may have a few more incidences of firearms being used in crimes of passion, but that's the only downside I can think of. And in those instances, a blade will probably take the place of a bullet.

As for a ban in the States, I consider that highly unlikely. What the banners have openly stated is that they're going to go after scary firearms that have a small niche in the civilian world first, then gradually chip away from there. If they intend to take my surplus ComBloc rifles, they can take them from my cold, dead hands.