i·de·ol·o·gy

1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

Reading the definition of ideology, I can't for the life of me see why anyone's ideological mindset has to agree or parallel anyone elses. While it's true that every, person, group, class, or culture lives by the structure of their own ideology, that doesn't qualify it as being right for or accepted by another person, group, class, or culture. Thus, a clash of cultures caused by ideology. I think WWII was the biggest culture shock to the Western allies when Japan demonstrated their rules of prisoner treatment. It wasn't wrong to them but it certainly was to Western countries.

I think some countries see beating Women for what they see as a terrible infraction to their code of living as being a duty by their ideology. That doesn't make it wrong to them, but to those countries who see that as barbaric, it's a strong enough act to warrant interfering in that particular part of their culture. Those who hold Human rights and dignity dear for every person on Earth are horrified by some practices that are completely normal for others. By definition, neither can be right or wrong if the argument that all ideologies are sacred and should be respected by the World as unique to a certain culture even if that means turning a blind eye to genocide.

Well, I accept the idea that there are destructive ideologies such as homocidal bombs will waft one to a life of x number of virgins in paradise.

I think some countries see beating Women for what they see as a terrible infraction to their code of living as being a duty by their ideology. That doesn't make it wrong to them, but to those countries who see that as barbaric, it's a strong enough act to warrant interfering in that particular part of their culture. Those who hold Human rights and dignity dear for every person on Earth are horrified by some practices that are completely normal for others. By definition, neither can be right or wrong

very true. Americans have no clue what it's like to be raised as a muslim in Iraq, and vice versa. (EXAMPLE)

Missileer you have touched on the very core of the issue I think. Or at least one which I have been considering for awhile now.

Some liberal idealogues have long touted we should respect other cultures. The have also professed that human rights as defined by the Western democracies should be the international norm. Even further they have then declared that it is immoral to sit back and allow gross violations of these rights. At the point they become consciously aware of said violations in country X they begin to publicly lobby for action on the part of their government and/or the UN. When the action is taken and they don't like the result they return to point one and declare their government is not respecting the culture of other peoples.

I might be over-simplifying and all but it seems like a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

I speak from a point of a man in the middle of changing his outlook on the world around him, not for the first or last time I am sure.

Originally Posted by Missileer

i·de·ol·o·gy

1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

Reading the definition of ideology, I can't for the life of me see why anyone's ideological mindset has to agree or parallel anyone elses. While it's true that every, person, group, class, or culture lives by the structure of their own ideology, that doesn't qualify it as being right for or accepted by another person, group, class, or culture. Thus, a clash of cultures caused by ideology. I think WWII was the biggest culture shock to the Western allies when Japan demonstrated their rules of prisoner treatment. It wasn't wrong to them but it certainly was to Western countries.

I think some countries see beating Women for what they see as a terrible infraction to their code of living as being a duty by their ideology. That doesn't make it wrong to them, but to those countries who see that as barbaric, it's a strong enough act to warrant interfering in that particular part of their culture. Those who hold Human rights and dignity dear for every person on Earth are horrified by some practices that are completely normal for others. By definition, neither can be right or wrong if the argument that all ideologies are sacred and should be respected by the World as unique to a certain culture even if that means turning a blind eye to genocide.

Well, I accept the idea that there are destructive ideologies such as homocidal bombs will waft one to a life of x number of virgins in paradise.

I agree with most of this however the one hole in many peoples thinking on these issues is that they have blanketed an entire religion with the ideologies of a few nutjobs who simply hide behind that religion.

Lets be realistic here if you look at the extremes of every culture you will find it hiding behind religion in one way or another to blanked an entire people with the reputation of a few is misleading after all how would would the US like to associated with the actions of Fred Phelps just because he was american?

Whispering Death

If you are trying to talk about the ideology of Political Correctness as it applies to the "feelgoodismology" (my term) thread that seems to permeate almost any discussion of American politics then I am afraid that I agree with you.

I am also sick and tired of that kind of crap. It would be the height of luxury if those idiots in Washington could begin to work together instead of constantly pointing a finger at each other while spouting all sorts of political cliches.

Whatever happened to common sense? When did it become extinct?

Average Joe sees what the problems are and asks himself why nothing seems to be resolved.

AS WHISPERING DEATH WOULD SAY:

THE REASON IS A REASON BORN IN IDEOLOGY AND DESTINED TO DIE IN IDEOLOGY.

Republicans<>Democrats (<> = 'are NOT') Democrats<>Republicans

Originally Posted by Ted

Oh come on Gladius, so now ideology is mainly a leftist deficiency? The American right has no specific set of idea's on which they base their course of action?



The illogical thought behind not doing so:
1) So you pick up this guy, beat the crap out of him and he knows..... diddly. You reckon he lies or hold back so you do a littel watertorture combined with some electricity because he has got to no something. Again he says he knows nothing....hhmm, let's put him away somewhere and work on him longer. Finally the guys actually does know nothing, that is what I call illogical.
2) Suppose you have a clever guy. After being beaten senseless once or twice he'll sing like a canary. Yes sir, I have a nuclear device somewhere hidden in the Rockies.... whatever you want me to say sir.
3) Of course there are more than a few laws prohibiting such acts.
4) For the connaiseurs in our midst; I doubt that this was the deeper meaning of "We the people...." we are all created equal unless we think you might have something to do with terrorism. Proof for arrest, we don't need any, we'll beat you just as long as it takes so that you'll say you are quilty.

Again, I might be rambling again but I do get a bit frightened if you seriously propose to unleash the "torture first as questions later"- policy.

You are assuming right away because he is a terrorist, then he doesn't know anything, thats why your thinking is illogilcal.

What if he does know something? After all he is a terrorist or in coertion with terrorist.

Whether or not the terrorist does know something they will find out.

The purpose is to extract information to save lives. To simpy not do it because of your feelings is illogical.

And as for your misgiuded atempt to use the US constitution of "we the people" to the benefit and well being of the terrorist, maybe you better read it again...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

See gladius that's logic! You are pointing to a contract made between we the people and the government and saying "Hey, you promised us this, give it to us!"

One could just as easily say "By using these torture techniques we are fostering more terrorism because now they are going to put in their recruiting speaches about how we do these inhumane things. Therefore it's creating more terrorists than it is stopping."

That's what I'm saying, I like things like that and I don't understand why mainstream political discource these days has such low low ammounts of that and such high amounts of ideology in it! Maybe because it's easier to just be ideological in your points? Because then you can go back and look at history and studies to determine whether or not a logical claim is true or false... but if it's just an abstract ideological line like "it would lower us down to the level of the terrorists" you can't prove or disprove it, ideology is just ideology.

Originally Posted by Chief Bones

AS WHISPERING DEATH WOULD SAY:

THE REASON IS A REASON BORN IN IDEOLOGY AND DESTINED TO DIE IN IDEOLOGY.

He he he I like that!

Its all about "feelgood" they do what feels good, but hat doesn't mean it is good. Political correctness has to do with feeling good, but not neseceraly doing the right thing.

It feels good now, but it will lead to trouble and cost more lives later, just so some politically correct wienies can fell good about it for the moment. I wonder if they will still feel good when some information that could have been extracted wasn't, and allows a terrorsit to set off a bomb and kill some their family members.

Well, I am tired of biased media too!