Topic: Are all VCs and similar medals deserved?

perseus · November 27th, 2006

Are all Victoria Crosses (and perhaps other medals) awarded fairly? Based on a programme on TV last night, I think not.

One case in point was the pilot William Leefe Robinson who was the first to shoot down an airship over Britain. Robinson’s guns were the first to be equipped with ammunition that exploded on impact. After attacking it, the airship burst into flames lighting up London so the event was witnessed by many people and he raised their spirits. This was the real reason behind the award. There is no record of him being injured or anything particularly brave in his actions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leefe_Robinson

Conversely, most heroic actions go relatively unnoticed and rarely change the course of a war, so perhaps there needs to be two classes of award, one for bravery during the action, and one for the effect of the action.

The Cooler King · November 27th, 2006

No way. Look at General MacArthur. He was awarded a Medal of Honor for retreating from the Philippines while the brave men who continued to stand and fight got nothing. There are tons of examples like that.

LeEnfield · December 3rd, 2006

To win a VC your actions need to be witnessed by an Officer, now i know of several people that have fallen foul of that one.

AussieNick · December 4th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

To win a VC your actions need to be witnessed by an Officer, now i know of several people that have fallen foul of that one.

Exactly, or a war's quota has been reached. For example Australia got an allowance of 4 VC's for the Vietnam war, all of them were awarded and there were numerous other nominations but they were all downgraded due to award limitations

The Cooler King · December 4th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by AussieNick

Exactly, or a war's quota has been reached. For example Australia got an allowance of 4 VC's for the Vietnam war, all of them were awarded and there were numerous other nominations but they were all downgraded due to award limitations

That's exactly what the 101st Airborne did on D-Day. General Taylor allowed only one Medal of Honor for the entire division which was awarded to Lt. Col. Cole for his bayonet charge at Carentan. Then guys like Harrison Summers who were nominated for the MoH were downgraded to the Distinguished Service Cross.

AussieNick · December 5th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

That's exactly what the 101st Airborne did on D-Day. General Taylor allowed only one Medal of Honor for the entire division which was awarded to Lt. Col. Cole for his bayonet charge at Carentan. Then guys like Harrison Summers who were nominated for the MoH were downgraded to the Distinguished Service Cross.

It's a load of BS really

Bugfatty · December 5th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

No way. Look at General MacArthur. He was awarded a Medal of Honor for retreating from the Philippines while the brave men who continued to stand and fight got nothing. There are tons of examples like that.

To be fair, he was ordered to leave by Roosevelt. He wasn't awarded the MoH for "retreating." It was for three months he held out on Bataan and Corregidor trying to hold off the Japanese.

What good would the General of the United States Army do by being
paraded around as a prisoner of the Japanese?

LeEnfield · December 5th, 2006

There were several Paratroopers that were recommended for a VC during the Falklands campaign, and is rumoured that the Admiral in charge of the awards reckoned that Para's had got many awards all ready

SHERMAN · December 23rd, 2006

simply the fact that he wazs the first to shoot down a zeplin, which was diffecult due to the flight altitude and he also was nearly killed by the zeppelin when it was about to crash(he was under it basically), but fired another box of ammo in just to be safe.

LeEnfield · October 5th, 2007

There was a time when the VC first came out and the whole unit had fought with great bravery then a name would be picked out of a hat. there were several VC's in India that were won that way. Well after a while it was thought good form to award the VC to the Officer in charge of that unit rather than it be given to some bloody private. Now I am not saying that many of the officers were not brave but they got it just becuase they were an officer.

November 27th, 2006	Post 1
perseus Centurion	Post; Are all VCs and similar medals deserved? Are all Victoria Crosses (and perhaps other medals) awarded fairly? Based on a programme on TV last night, I think not. One case in point was the pilot William Leefe Robinson who was the first to shoot down an airship over Britain. Robinson’s guns were the first to be equipped with ammunition that exploded on impact. After attacking it, the airship burst into flames lighting up London so the event was witnessed by many people and he raised their spirits. This was the real reason behind the award. There is no record of him being injured or anything particularly brave in his actions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leefe_Robinson Conversely, most heroic actions go relatively unnoticed and rarely change the course of a war, so perhaps there needs to be two classes of award, one for bravery during the action, and one for the effect of the action. __________________ Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. Herman Goering

November 27th, 2006	Post 2
The Cooler King Godfather Gear	No way. Look at General MacArthur. He was awarded a Medal of Honor for retreating from the Philippines while the brave men who continued to stand and fight got nothing. There are tons of examples like that. Last edited by The Cooler King : November 27th, 2006 at 18:37.

December 3rd, 2006	Post 3
LeEnfield Tribuni Angusticlavii Gear	To win a VC your actions need to be witnessed by an Officer, now i know of several people that have fallen foul of that one. __________________ LeEnfield Rides again

December 23rd, 2006	Post 9
SHERMAN Milforum Moderator	simply the fact that he wazs the first to shoot down a zeplin, which was diffecult due to the flight altitude and he also was nearly killed by the zeppelin when it was about to crash(he was under it basically), but fired another box of ammo in just to be safe. __________________ In the roar of engines, in the tunder of cannons,in the comradship of blood!

December 5th, 2006	Post 8
LeEnfield Tribuni Angusticlavii Gear	There were several Paratroopers that were recommended for a VC during the Falklands campaign, and is rumoured that the Admiral in charge of the awards reckoned that Para's had got many awards all ready

October 5th, 2007	Post 10
LeEnfield Tribuni Angusticlavii Gear	There was a time when the VC first came out and the whole unit had fought with great bravery then a name would be picked out of a hat. there were several VC's in India that were won that way. Well after a while it was thought good form to award the VC to the Officer in charge of that unit rather than it be given to some bloody private. Now I am not saying that many of the officers were not brave but they got it just becuase they were an officer.

Topic: Are all VCs and similar medals deserved?

Post; Are all VCs and similar medals deserved?