Albanian SF killed up to 20 Talibans in combat mission

LeMask said:
I know exactly what they are used for on the battleground. I just think that tanks and aircrafts are made to invade rather than to defend.

And I dont want to pay to send an over powerful war machine to slaughter other people.

But I dont see how expensive is the equipment for SF units. For me, the big difference between SF and regular troops is the mission.

And I dont see an infantry man carrying 1million dollars of equipment...

But I think that a modern tank costs many millions, and there is only a few soldiers inside it...

(Let's ban heavy weapons)
Click to expand...


So what you're saying, essentially is that tanks, CAS and artillery is unuseable for example; supporting an infantry element defending a forward position ???
I take it you've never been in the military LeMask.

You have to account for the cost of equipping, training, feeding and paying an infantryman. And on top of this keeping your infantrymen supplied and equipped at all times with whatever they need.
Ammunition, fuel, water, food, spares of everything.
It might not be a milion, but it will sure be up there.
 
I've never been in the military. But I have a little knowledge about the military world. I know that you can use a weapon in both offense and defense. But that wasnt my point.

My problem is that we are today in a world where there is a military industry. We waste so much resources on heavy weapon platforms like aircrafts and tanks etc... All these weapons are used to wage war beyond defense.
It would be nice to make all these weapons obsolete and force mankind to risk lives in every military aspect. I mean serious risks.

In this case, men will fear other men. And we will have a little peace. Maybe... Hopefully..

It's not always the good guys who win. So let's ban the big sticks.

Sure, but an infantryman is also a man. He can build, give medical care, diffuse mines etc... And if you have been in Israel, you will see that soldiers can even get a job and make money...
While a tank can only be a tank...

And every country can afford to have a few good and strong men. Like in this thread, we see Albanian SF. But I dont know if Albania can afford to have a lot of battle tanks, aircraft carriers + high tech aircrafts...
 
brinktk, I find your comment offensive.

Are you aware that I can have the same reaction?

You have a severe lack of imagination and you dont see beyond your nose... You are so stuck on how the world is that you forget about how the world should be...

How can you advance if you have no idea about where to go?

Mankind is suffering from an illness, and this illness is war. It's just a higher level of crime. To have a war, we need a criminal attacking another human being.

And we evolved on this path. And the fruit of this evolution is all these heavy killing machines... Tanks, aircraft etc... We didnt build this crap to love each others. But to kill other people.

Cavemen throwing rocks at each others are more advanced than modern men killing each others with tanks.

At least, when you spend to train men, you get better men, stronger, more capable etc... It's not wasted resources.
 
LeMask said:
I've never been in the military. But I have a little knowledge about the military world. I know that you can use a weapon in both offense and defense. But that wasnt my point.

My problem is that we are today in a world where there is a military industry. We waste so much resources on heavy weapon platforms like aircrafts and tanks etc... All these weapons are used to wage war beyond defense.
It would be nice to make all these weapons obsolete and force mankind to risk lives in every military aspect. I mean serious risks.

In this case, men will fear other men. And we will have a little peace. Maybe... Hopefully..

It's not always the good guys who win. So let's ban the big sticks.

Sure, but an infantryman is also a man. He can build, give medical care, diffuse mines etc... And if you have been in Israel, you will see that soldiers can even get a job and make money...
While a tank can only be a tank...

And every country can afford to have a few good and strong men. Like in this thread, we see Albanian SF. But I dont know if Albania can afford to have a lot of battle tanks, aircraft carriers + high tech aircrafts...
Click to expand...

True, you have LITTLE knowledge of the military clearly !:D

So now you're saying that the tank crew, or the fighter/helicopter-crew, are never in the line of fire, thus never in danger ???
So the CH-47 flying men and supplies and the Blackhawk flying medevacs who were shot down in Afghan were not in any danger !

I have to stop replying to these posts. What a waste of time trying to reason with people, who have never served, and who at the same time apparently believe they are experts on the military.

Sorry for hijacking the thread !!!
 
I suppose that offensive type weapons could not be used as a way to prevent invasion? Or to counter attack in the event of an invasion? Having the capability to strike anywhere in the world effectively is a pretty good defense if you ask me. If an enemy knows the second they attack, they in turn will be attacked in their weakest area, it tends to prevent them from acting up in the first place. This is what Teddy Roosevelt's reference to carrying a big stick meant.

I AM a realist...ALL soldiers are. We can't afford to have idealistic ideas of great utopias in our minds because that type of thinking is hazardous to our and our soldiers health.

We must deal with the facts in a timely and efficient manner if we are to be effective on the battlefield. In a world where everyone is armed to the teethe, these heavy weapons are essential to ensuring not only offensive, but defensive capability.

You always spout how we are supposed to think and use our brains. It's hard to think clearly when taking into account all the harsh realities of the world we live in, but , we DO manage to do it. I think it is irresponsible to only think with utopian glasses on because you are only capable of seeing black and white while the actual world is just filled with shades of grey.

Call me what you want, the fact still remains that I'm living in reality, while you seem to be living in an idealistic fantasy. You referenced that I look down my nose at you...I simply can't take you seriously because of your inability to accept the ideas of people who have actually lived the life you proclaim to know so much about. You admit you have not and would not serve in a military and at the same time freely insult the experience and training of numerous numbers of military members on here by ignoring the words we say and then going further by insinuating that your ideas are superior with absolutely no experience to back it up. It's a slap in the face to all of us. Stop acting like a child and join the real world.
 
KV., compared to an infantryman? Yeah, tankers are in safe place.

What was the biggest threat for Abrams crew in the invasion of Iraq? Friendly fire?

It takes a really retarded person to think that a tank cant be defeated. And please, dont insult me, not my fault if you dont get the point.

brinktk, we dont really need the ability to strike anything in the world... Unless you have a world domination agenda and that you need to scare everybody.
To build these weapons you had to pillage the world. And then, you needed these weapons to "defend yourselves"... And I mean by that, to go kick ass all over the world and enslave people.

These world domination tools bring war at every step. To make them, to keep them and when you use them.

I prefer these countries who dont have a world domination agenda.
 
LeMask said:
I've never been in the military. But I have a little knowledge about the military world. I know that you can use a weapon in both offense and defense. But that wasnt my point.

My problem is that we are today in a world where there is a military industry. We waste so much resources on heavy weapon platforms like aircrafts and tanks etc... All these weapons are used to wage war beyond defense.
It would be nice to make all these weapons obsolete and force mankind to risk lives in every military aspect. I mean serious risks.

In this case, men will fear other men. And we will have a little peace. Maybe... Hopefully..

It's not always the good guys who win. So let's ban the big sticks.

Sure, but an infantryman is also a man. He can build, give medical care, diffuse mines etc... And if you have been in Israel, you will see that soldiers can even get a job and make money...
While a tank can only be a tank...

And every country can afford to have a few good and strong men. Like in this thread, we see Albanian SF. But I dont know if Albania can afford to have a lot of battle tanks, aircraft carriers + high tech aircrafts...
Click to expand...

Actually the MOD wants to spend in the following 2 years 350-400 million euros on the special forces to upgrade their ecuipment and buy new ones including the list below

Security/Defense demands of the Albanian Special Forces for the next 2 years to come:
- Constructive Simulation
- System of Information and Logistic Support Management
- Intelligence equipment
- Tactic radio communication equipment
- Field equipment
- MKK equipment
- Light armaments
- Mobile center
- Armored vehicles (200 mil. Euro negotiable in the 2 years to come)- Operative mountain equipment
- Helicopters
 
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200-400millions? On two years? Some smart guys cant buy a decent Submarine with this budget...

It's a lot of money of course. But in the world of military spending... It's not much...

But I'm curious, I really want to know the detail on how they will spend that. How many men etc...

And communication equipment, technologies etc... These things cost A LOT.
 
LeMask said:
200-400millions? On two years? Some smart guys cant buy a decent Submarine with this budget...

It's a lot of money of course. But in the world of military spending... It's not much...

But I'm curious, I really want to know the detail on how they will spend that. How many men etc...

And communication equipment, technologies etc... These things cost A LOT.
Click to expand...

The spending on the Special Forces is actually 350-400 million euro for two years this is a lot of money seen the fact that we are talking 2000-3000 men max not to mention the $ they get abroad 10,000-12,000$ a month the sf got it pretty good here

the small submarines they use for divers are actually counted as (navy costs)
 
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When I was talking about small submarines, I was thinking about these torpedo-like submarines the SF use for infiltration.

This is the special equipment I was talking about. I wasnt thinking about the larger ones, even if they can do this job...

And 200-300millions seems fair for that number of SF.
 
LeMask said:
KV., compared to an infantryman? Yeah, tankers are in safe place.

What was the biggest threat for Abrams crew in the invasion of Iraq? Friendly fire?

It takes a really retarded person to think that a tank cant be defeated. And please, dont insult me, not my fault if you dont get the point.
Click to expand...


You haven't answered my question LeMask.

Biggest threat to an Abrams crew during the invasion of Iraq? There are quite a few to be honest. Enemy arnmour (T-80, T-72 I think), AT weapons and AT mines. Advancing through urban terrain without infantry support - the list continues.
When you mock the tank crews by suggesting friendly fire was their main concern you once again show everyone, that you clearly have no knowledge what so ever about the military. You seem oblivious to the fact, that people on this forum actually KNOW because they are in, or have been in military.

Again sorry for hijacking the thread. I'll stop replying to his retarded posts now.

Back on track.
 
How is that "mocking"? I clearly said that the biggest threat to Abrams tanks were other friendly units who actually have the firepower to defeat them.

And you know better than me how the Iraqi resistance was a joke. I'm not even sure that their tanks were in shape for combat after 10 years of blockade on their country.

My point is very clear. All these heavy weapons platforms are a big source of problems. They turn our leaders into arrogant fools and they are a huge waste of resources (human intelligence and more...)

We need boots on the ground. And not piece of crap tanks capable of leveling the whole city and pissing off the whole planet...
 
It's funny...I was in the invasion of Iraq and I don't remember leveling whole cities. I remember having to be very precise and very deliberate in my selection of targets. This ability to discern bad guys from good guys was made possible by the heavy weapons you so tenaciously spout as bad. Without those armored vehicles...I would be dead right now. They protected me from the numerous RPGs and indirect fire attacks I endured throughout the course of the invasion. Not to mention the voracious amount of small arms fire that we endured too. There is absolutely no way we could have covered over 350 miles of urban/desert in 2 1/2 weeks by just going boots on the ground.

When I think of the combat that you spout we should be operating in, I think of WWI.
 
Guys, read carefully.
I said "capable of leveling whole cities", it's an image, I was pointing at their overwhelming destructive power.

And I dont know if you would be dead... Maybe that you would have been at home drinking beer.
And if you went to war anyway... Then maybe that some Iraqi soldiers would be alive.

Or maybe that you would be in vacations in Iraq because Saddam wouldnt have been able to defend his dictatorship without a mechanized army... Who knows?

And they had artillery in WWI. I'm not for peace at all costs...
Just that there is some people on this planet who want to fight... And it would be nice to take out their big toys and give them clubs. Beat each others up if you want. We dont care. But when I know that these maniacs have nuclear bombs, tanks, aircraft carriers etc... I think that the day we will have to deal with them... It will be a real nightmare.

We have to stop them at some point.
 
I share the same opinion... You guys dont see how pointless these machines are. You are stuck in this world we live in, and you dont use your imagination.

Dont you see how random these events are? If the Iraqis had a stronger industry and a more advanced technology... and that they were crushing you from space with startrek like weapons...

I wonder if your opinion would have been the same... Maybe that you would be here ranting about these savages with powerful weapons destroying the world too. Not?
 
What world are you stuck in then? I wish I too could live in fantasy land. But the real world IS the world I live in. Thinking of it any other way means me and my men get dead.
 
It's a good question... But the answer is somehow obvious for me.
You have to accept the world as it is to deal with it. But if you lose your ability to question it, and to question the most obvious aspects of this world... Then you will lose your ability to change the world.

And we are not making a better world by building weapons.

And it's good to see that you care about your life and the lives of your men. But are they really living a normal life? Are we really living a sane and noble life? Do you care as much about the meaning of their lives?

For me, receiving a military training is a part of life. Waging war on crime is an important part of life.
But when it comes to paying taxes to pay for an aircraft carrier... I have big doubts. What for? To counter another aircraft carrier or similar weapons? What's the point?
 
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