Originally Posted by Redcell
Sometimes you must sacrafice a little to save alot. What is worse torturing a group of terrorists or knowing theres a way to save thousands of people and not taking any action? you must choose the lesser evil right? and i dont belive that what we did to those men in gitmo qualifies as torture what they do to our marines is torture.
The action of releasing those memos only helped the other side, and the decision to stop using those methods took away a good way to get intel on what is going on in thier heads and insight into thier plans.
I think I repeat other when I say that intell through torture is about as objective as ...... something totally not objective. He will sing like a canarie, regardless of the truth.
And your comment on sacreficing a little.... Christ, how would you feel if you were that little? There are people in Gitmo, who are totally unkown and can be as innocent as you are.
Originally Posted by Redcell
How is this helping The USA? his job is not to slander the right its to help everybody and not ruin National security.
How is torture helping the USA? You are talking about slander while you are under the pretence of spreading freedom and democracy by using torture as an instrument to achieve those noble goals? How is not torturing a breakdown in national security? The info isn't reliable to begin with. And what about your international image? If you want help from you alienated allies, this isn't the way... easy as pie!
Originally Posted by Partisan
So how do we feel about torture?
Let's test it, here is a quick scenario.
A soldier from your country has been captured by the enemy, they believe that he has vital operational information, so they use torture to extract the information.
My questions are:
1. How do you react?
2. How should your govt react?
3. Does this fall within the Geneva & Hague Conventions?
1) I'd feel sorry for the poor soul.
2) They'd feel sorry too and keep a clear head. Than they'd surely make clear that they don't descend to the sad, pathetic level of those who use torture to gain next to nothing.
3) This reaction will fall with a 100% certainty within the different conventions on human rights and POW rights...
You Have good points however,1 Eventually we get the truth.2 THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT TORTURE EVERYBODY IT CAPTURES. not even the majority. 3 the point I raised about the treatment of our prisoners to thiers was not adresses. we do not Cut off our prisoners fingers and toes burn them with cigarettes and electrocute them. we dont drill into thier kneecaps with drills either. we waterboard them. we slap them around. hard. we deprive them of sleep. we play heavy metal. we have doctors and psycologists watching to make sure no permanant lasting damage is done. when we are done they are put in a cell and fed.
we dont decapitate them,cover thier bodies with tar and string them up by thier feet.
and about the sh!77y intel we get, how did we find out about the plot to attack LAX? Cheney was talking about it on fox last week Ill try to find an artical. but the info was from one of the men that was waterboarded. How many people did that save?
I would not enjoy being that "little" as I put it however I am not, and never will be in posession of information of an attack on the United States
the fact that Irq is on its way to becoming the second democracy in the middle east, and had its first democratic vote in over 30 years not too long ago id say we are spreading democracy just fine
If we got info that stopped an attack and was giving us names of terrorists in the United States and you took the way to get that info away that is messing with national security. Releasing those memos was a hit to national security, as certain organizations could be using them to recruit new members. yes i realise could be is vauge but it would make a really nice recruitment poster.
As for international Image, I would rather know i am safe than that people like my country. I love my country and I am just Fine if it uses harsher interrogation methods or torture in extreme cases.
And 13th redneck raised a very valid point with my signature, thank you for that I will be changing it. there really wouldent be a point would there?
The Mind Is The Deadliest Weapon Ever Used By Man.