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Originally Posted by senojekips Ahh,... back from fishing already. |
Ah - you noticed. Yes, fish were not biting. I took a peek and decided there were bigger fish to fry here.
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Originally Posted by senojekips An excellent moral and logical stand you take there Delboy, just about what I would have expected. |
Yeah - not bad, even tho' I say so myself.
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Originally Posted by senojekips So,...torture is only torture if it kills you eh?? |
No - not at all. Your words not mine.You draw a very incorrect conclusion, without so much as a 'by your leave'.
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Originally Posted by senojekips
That's odd, because I was always of the impression that, this was covered by the term "Murder". |
Yes and I have exactly the same impression myself. We are in agreement.
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Originally Posted by senojekips
How many lives do you think this little episode saved Delboy? |
Well, who knows - maybe the three guys who came to no harm and were released from Gitmo proved helpful .
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Originally Posted by senojekips Incidentally,... water boarding was used by the Chinese 2,600 years ago, and certainly falls well within the boundaries of torture "in the old and recognised forms" |
I like to keep an open mind, as you know.
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Originally Posted by senojekips
I feel that being beaten to death also falls well within the boundaries of torture "in the old and recognised forms" |
Absolutely - we are in agreement yet again.
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Originally Posted by senojekips
It seems that our foes have never played by the "rules" but that in no way excuses us from remaining civilised. We are supposed to be "The Good guys" remember. |
I believe that your first premise is incorrect as far as warfare is concerned. I believe also that we try to remain civilised and to be the good guys. However , when fighting for the survival of the civilised world it can become very difficult from time to time to maintain everything in bright shining white condition, when your foes are such dedicated murderous
fanatics operating under no rules whatsoever except Kill Americans Everywhere.
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Originally Posted by senojekips Your definitions of "torture" are of absolutely no consequence, as as is your "nod" in approving the actions of the torturers. |
I haven't yet specified my definition of torture, are you confusing me with some other guy?
My 'nod' does not extend to approving torture, but in having the confidence to in USA at Gitmo to attempt to walk the straight and narrow, and to believe their account rather than that of their adverseries. Got it now?
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Originally Posted by senojekips
I believe that Heinrich Himmler gave his "nod" to the death camps, but it in no way exonerated him from blame nor made it right. |
Absolutely. Another agreement there. We are doing well.
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Originally Posted by senojekips I'll make one guarantee. If you were subjected even to the mildest forms of these acts, you would have a sudden and very permanent reversal of attitude regarding the use of torture. |
That puts you and I in the same boat then - because a REVERSAL of my attitude would place me FOR torture, when the opposite is true. Also - if even the mildest form led to saving you and yours, your attitude might well change. But of course you are safe and comfortable.
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Originally Posted by senojekips
I think that you'd be far better off if you went back fishing. |
I heartily agree - not much to get my teeth into here.
Now then - rference your examples, if the first is true and that poor guy suffered that terrible fate at the hands of USA soldiers (IF) -then I am very much against- shocking - got it?
On the other hand- the three companions were taken in, tucked up in Gitmo for a period, while being investigated, and then returned home safely. In a war situation, this seems acceptable to me, and rather defeats your argument. WW11, our local Italians and Jewish Germans were tucked away for 5 years or more.
** You will note that out of respect for you I have completely ignored your little stash of personal insults etc.
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Originally Posted by senojekips Yes, I support the war and the aims of the Coalition, I merely have issues with some of the methods being used to attain them. |
Yes and I am very glad to hear it, you are a good man and put a strong case.
***
MontyB - almost missed you there, thought for a minute it was a parrot on Seno's shoulder!
Right then, if you can't fathom it out for yourself then don't worry about it. Thanks, but we've moved on. Fancy a spot of fishin'; I'm just off again.