Topic: 'Torture-tainted evidence' mars US legal image: rights group (AFP)

senojekips · March 16th, 2008

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Originally Posted by Del Boy

I really don't know why I bother - but you tempt me so, which I am sure is deliberate.
How can you describe these rebuffals of your opinion as 'inane' and 'drivel'. I am honoured to stand by them, and it should not be necessary to lay them out for you again. However- if you really need such I will do so. I am particularly comfortable with them and I reiterate them and recommend them to you.

It may be news to you, but the fact that you are honoured to stand by your own "rebuffals" (sic) in no way lessens their inanity in view of the facts.

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Sorry -But you surely HAVE heard of non- Iraqis being involved in Iraq - we are fighting there, alongside Iraqis, against that self- same alliance of terror.

Nice try DelBoy. Your statement was and I quote with my own highlighting

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BUT - the war being fought in Iraq now is against the same forces who initially attacked USA,

As I clearly pointed out no Iraqis were involved in 9/11, or are you suddenly talking of another "initial attack".

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Furthermore, you list only the strikers of that same alliance with no mention of where they were recruited and trained and funded. As for the countries you mention - you are right - within those countries are those who wish to pose the same threat, and we also have the same here. We need to be alert to this. And I wonder why these governments co-operated in the manner you specify? Do you wonder why?

No, but I do wonder why the coalition attacked Iraq and has completely ignored the countries of the actual attackers. Comparing this with a criminal case, you would advocate that in the case of a murder, that the police lock up all of those who disliked the victim, but let the perpetrator go free. Your logic as usual is "odd' to say the very least.

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Now I also have deep seated distrust of panic merchants,

You'd better take a good long look in the mirror then, your going to be absolutely horrified.

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At the same time, you are hardly in a position to claim that "no-one is asleep".

Pray tell,why? Every time a crime is committed we don't race around with our hands over our heads accusing the police that they are asleep. Well, no one except the panic merchants and trouble makers.

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Now then, you haven't yet produced your favourite 'whinging' card, which I detest. However, in this case, allow me to point out that in fact, you are the 'whinger' here, regarding the situation under discussion. I am only the little voice suggesting that those with the job of defeating a serious enemy be allowed to get on with it in the best way they can. As General Patten would tell us - If a man does his best -what else is there. I am prepared to expect our protectors to do their best, and in the best possible manner open to them.

Quite simply, because you are not "whinging" in this case, (to "whinge" is to complain without reason) you are merely disseminating a panic driven view of the facts and in my day panic merchants were pulled before the commanding officer for a good talking to. They run against my grain which is the only reason I get involved in these little "argy bargys" with you.

I feel that you'd be a real barrel of laughs, as a backstop in a tough spot Delboy.

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But you have just accused me of knowing nothing of him. in you last post. Flailing about, are we?

A small but important fact, I asked if you were aware of who he was, in regard to the part he played as a NeoCon,... remember

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I have forgotten nothing, and N. Ireland is another big subject, which incidentally does not fall your way. Another time.

But you have not grasped my point. Forget 'Gunboat Diplomacy' or even 'a whiff of grape-shot' - that is nothing to do with it.

So you see no similarity between this conflict and the days of Gunboat Diplomacy? Tell me why this does not surprise me?

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The ideology of our enemies is one of respecting only strength and power, may well include fear as in the case of Sadam and some other middle-eastern rulers, it is simply that they interpret the softer approach as weakness. Any concession brings forth another demand. They have no inclination to accept that the velvet glove can defeat the iron fist. Take a look at their governments. You should be very well aware of this, if you are as well into The Kingdom (Lacey) as you claim.

You keep using the word "respect", when all the time you mean "fear"

Only the "spineless" show respect in the face of aggression. Our enemy may be criminally misguided and at odds with our views, however there is no way that he can be shown as spineless. Merely the fact that he continues to take up arms against a hugely superior force is proof of that. Would you strap on an explosive belt and sacrifice yourself to give your enemy a poke in the eye? It may be an act of immense stupidity on behalf of the perpetrator in my view, but it is certainly not spineless.

Now,... before the mods close this wildly wandering thread, let's get back to the point about how the use of torture by coalition forces has turned and bitten us on the bum.