Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

You can cite all the sources that you want. How about a million more? None of this changes the fact that the Sovs got creamed. And, they got creamed throughout the war -- the war kept the Russians in the stone age. That was all they could ever have achieved. It was a "miracle" from a Slavic perspective, but they only gave up millions to allow the Americans to win.

Let me introduce a conjectural point...after all this crap, that is the least that one could allow me. What about a war between Germany and the Soviets without the air war and the two fronts in Italy and France? Come on, who are you trying to convince? I live in the real world. How about you guys? Germany would have won.

And, anyway, look at Russia today, what have they won? 60 years after WWII, I have to say that Germany won, anyway.