QUOTE :Maybe they should just go back to colonialize?
It would take far shorter then 60-100 years, and perhaps after solving the mess they could give it back for another 60 or so years of civil wars and other fun activities. UNQUOTE ( KJ ) ___ WELL YOU SEE ITS NOT THAT EASY TO GO BACK TO COLONISATION. SEE THE MESS CREATED IN IRAQ. THE NAME OF THE GAME HAS CHANGED BUT MEDDLING HASN'T STOPPED. OR LOOK AT AFGHANISTAN WHERE THE US IS FIGHTING THE FRANKESTEIN SHE CREATED NAMELY THE TALIBAN AND BIN LADEN WHO WERE TO START WITH CIA STOOGES TASKED TO FIGHT THE SOVIET OCCUPATION. KJs TALK ABOUT A 16YR OLD DOING WHAT HIS COUNTRY HAS ASKED HIM TO DO TANTAMOUNTS TO WHAT A WHOLE LOT OF POST WW-2 GERMANS WOULD SAY TO EXSCUSE THEIR BLIND ACCEPTANCE OF NAZISM . THE SCARS ON THE JEWS EVEN AFTER THE PASSAGE OF SIXTY YEARS SINCE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS OF DACHAU,BUCHENWALD ETC WERE LIBERATED IS YET TO HEAL. THE SETTLEMENT OF THE JEWISH HOMELAND WAS ALO LEFT AS A BURNING QUESTION BY THE BRITISH AND THE REPERCUSSIONS ARE STILL BEING FELT.SOCIETY ANYWHERE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF ITS EXISTENCE AND SOCIO-ECONOMICAL HISTORY CAN NOT BE OVERLOOKED WHEN STUDYING THE CAUSE AND EFFECT THAT MAKES FOR SOCIO-POLITICAL REALITIES OF THE DAY. I AM SORRY KJ BUT YOUR POST SMACKS OF IMPERIALISM AT ITs WORST AND THIS COMING FROM A SWEDE IS SURPRISING.

Originally Posted by roverin

QUOTE :Maybe they should just go back to colonialize?
It would take far shorter then 60-100 years, and perhaps after solving the mess they could give it back for another 60 or so years of civil wars and other fun activities. UNQUOTE ( KJ ) ___ WELL YOU SEE ITS NOT THAT EASY TO GO BACK TO COLONISATION. SEE THE MESS CREATED IN IRAQ. THE NAME OF THE GAME HAS CHANGED BUT MEDDLING HASN'T STOPPED. OR LOOK AT AFGHANISTAN WHERE THE US IS FIGHTING THE FRANKESTEIN SHE CREATED NAMELY THE TALIBAN AND BIN LADEN WHO WERE TO START WITH CIA STOOGES TASKED TO FIGHT THE SOVIET OCCUPATION. KJs TALK ABOUT A 16YR OLD DOING WHAT HIS COUNTRY HAS ASKED HIM TO DO TANTAMOUNTS TO WHAT A WHOLE LOT OF POST WW-2 GERMANS WOULD SAY TO EXSCUSE THEIR BLIND ACCEPTANCE OF NAZISM . THE SCARS ON THE JEWS EVEN AFTER THE PASSAGE OF SIXTY YEARS SINCE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS OF DACHAU,BUCHENWALD ETC WERE LIBERATED IS YET TO HEAL. THE SETTLEMENT OF THE JEWISH HOMELAND WAS ALO LEFT AS A BURNING QUESTION BY THE BRITISH AND THE REPERCUSSIONS ARE STILL BEING FELT.SOCIETY ANYWHERE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF ITS EXISTENCE AND SOCIO-ECONOMICAL HISTORY CAN NOT BE OVERLOOKED WHEN STUDYING THE CAUSE AND EFFECT THAT MAKES FOR SOCIO-POLITICAL REALITIES OF THE DAY. I AM SORRY KJ BUT YOUR POST SMACKS OF IMPERIALISM AT ITs WORST AND THIS COMING FROM A SWEDE IS SURPRISING.

Roverine, I assume you didn´t mean to shout?
Your Caps lock key is located on the left hand side of your keyboard right over the "shift" key.

And uhmm dude, where to begin..

Afghanistan was a piss poor example.
The ALLIED OEF forces are there with full backing of the UN codes of selfdefence.
Furthermore there is a UN mission in that country under the name of ISAF, UNSCR,s (United Nations Security Council) resulutions 1386, 1413, 1444, 1510, 1563, 1623, 1659 and 1707 will give you further information.

If your nation IS NOT a part of the efforts there, then WHY?

Did you just draw a parallel between a 16 year old kid high as a kite on Khat and the Nazis?
If that is the case you must have had a lobotomy.
If you are referring to my remark about "He doesn´t care what country he is in"?
All I can do is ask you Sir, have you been to a war waging African nation?
Have you seen such a kid with your own eyes?
He doesn´t care.
Nine times out of ten he doesn´t even know.

And I am not that much of a fan of imperialism.
But maybe someone needs to step in to stop genocides and civil war in the sector.
Even you have heard about Rwanda and the Tutsis vs the Hutus?
And about DRC, where the most severe clashes stood between Lendu and Hema?
When no one showed up in time for the first of those debacles there were alot of screaming about "the lack of presence" of the western nations..
In Somalia the civil war turned into a genocide before someone stepped in, when they did the coat turned and made it politically correct to scream about they went in too tough?

So how do you propose these genocide situations should be solved?
By doing nothing, or by taking a stand?
In war there is no middleground and you should know that..


I just saw you are an AD LtCol, and you don´t KNOW this already??
Surprising to say the least.....Sir..

//KJ.

BY THE WAY I AM NOT AN AD LT COL. I AM AN INFANTARIAN.SEEMS I HAVE TOUCHED A RAW NERVE WITH MY ALL CAPITALS. BUT HATS OFF TO YOU ,YOU TAKE THE CAKE AS FAR AS THE SLANGING MATCH GOES SINCE I AM SURE THAT THE ONLY BULLETS YOU FIRED WERE ON THE CLASSIFICATION RANGE. TELL ME APART FROM THE NATO WAR GAMES WHEN WAS YOUR COUNTRY LAST IN A WAR? WAS IT WW2 WHEN YOU WERE OVERRUN BY THE GERMANS? OR ARE YOU ALL PART OF THE COALITION FORCES AT IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AT THE BECK AND CALL OF THE BIG WHITE AMERICAN CHIEF. YES! WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THE UNs PRESENCE IN AFGHANISTAN AND ITS TOKEN FORCES I AM ALSO AWARE AS THE REST OF THE WORLD AS TO WHO CALLS THE SHOTS AT THE UN SECURITY COUNCILS. BUT ARE YOU AWARE THAT MY COUNTRY WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE UNO? AND DO LOOK UP THE UN SITE YOU WILL FIND THAT MY COUNTRY HAS ALWAYS SENT CONTINGENTS TO UN FORCES RIGHT FROM KOREA TO ANGOLA , SOMALIA, CONGO ETC.ARE YOU AWARE THAT ONE OF OUR OFFICER LOST HIS LIFE IN CONGO.CHECK MY POSTS IN THIS FORUM AND YOU WILL GET THE DETAILS. OF THIS OFFICER WHEN HE DIED PROTECTING THE UN FORCES HQ IN CONGO.
AND AS YOU CORRECTLY POINTED OUT BUT DID NOT ELABORATE THE AFGHAN WAR IS BEING RUN BY THE COALITION FORCES AND NOT THE UN FORCES.
PONTIFICATION WITHOUT HAVING PARTICIPATION IS PERHAPS THE EASIEST OF THE VICES. OF MY 18 YRS IN SERVICE I HAVE SPENT A GOOD 14 TO 15 YRS FIGHTING THE LOW INTENSITY PROXYWAR THAT PAKISTAN HAS BEEN WAGING AGAINST MY COUNTRY. THE PERSON WHO WEARS THE SHOE KNOWS WHERE IT PINCHES. THIS AGAIN IS A FALLL OUT OF THE PARTITION OF INDIA AND PAKISTAN IN 1947. BY THE WAY YOU TOO ARE ADVISED TO GET YOUR FACTS CHECKED UP, MY COUNTRY HAS CONTRIBUTED SUBSTANTIALLY IN THE RECONSTRUCTION OF AFGHANISTAN AND ITS PRESENT PRESIDENT SWEARS BY OUR COUNTRY. YES! YOU ARE RIGHT SOMEONE HAD TO CLEAN UP THE MESS AND WHO BETTER THAN THOSE WHO CREATED THE FRANKESTEIN?

CHEERIO AND CHECKMATE PARTNER!

Originally Posted by roverin

BY THE WAY I AM NOT AN AD LT COL. I AM AN INFANTARIAN.SEEMS I HAVE TOUCHED A RAW NERVE WITH MY ALL CAPITALS. BUT HATS OFF TO YOU ,YOU TAKE THE CAKE AS FAR AS THE SLANGING MATCH GOES SINCE I AM SURE THAT THE ONLY BULLETS YOU FIRED WERE ON THE CLASSIFICATION RANGE. TELL ME APART FROM THE NATO WAR GAMES WHEN WAS YOUR COUNTRY LAST IN A WAR? WAS IT WW2 WHEN YOU WERE OVERRUN BY THE GERMANS? OR ARE YOU ALL PART OF THE COALITION FORCES AT IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AT THE BECK AND CALL OF THE BIG WHITE AMERICAN CHIEF. YES! WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THE UNs PRESENCE IN AFGHANISTAN AND ITS TOKEN FORCES I AM ALSO AWARE AS THE REST OF THE WORLD AS TO WHO CALLS THE SHOTS AT THE UN SECURITY COUNCILS. BUT ARE YOU AWARE THAT MY COUNTRY WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE UNO? AND DO LOOK UP THE UN SITE YOU WILL FIND THAT MY COUNTRY HAS ALWAYS SENT CONTINGENTS TO UN FORCES RIGHT FROM KOREA TO ANGOLA , SOMALIA, CONGO.ARE YOU AWARE THAT ONE OF OUR OFFICER LOST HIS LIFE IN CONGO.CHECK MY POSTS IN THIS FORUM AND YOU WILL GET THE DETAILS.
ND AS YOU CORRECTLY POINTED OUT BUT DID NOT ELABORATE THE AFGHAN WAR IS BEING RUN BY THE COALITION FORCES AND NOT THE UN FORCES.
PONTIFICATION WITHOUT HAVING PARTICIPATION IS PERHAPS THE EASIEST OF THE VICES. OF MY 18 YRS IN SERVICE I HAVE SPENT A GOOD 14 TO 15 YRS FIGHTING THE LOW INTENSITY PROXYWAR THAT PAKISTAN HAS BEEN WAGING AGAINST MY COUNTRY. THE PERSON HO WEARS THE SHOE KNOWS WHERE IT PINCHES. THIS AGAIN IS A FALLL OUT OF THE PARTITION OF INDIA AND PAKISTAN IN 1947. BY THE WAY YOU TOO ARE ADVISED TO GET YOUR FACTS CHECHKED UP, MY COUNTRY HAS CONTRIBUTED SUBSTANTIALLY IN THE RECONSTRUCTION OF AFGHANISTAN AND ITS PRESENT PRESIDENT SWEARS BY OUR COUNTRY. YES! YOU ARE RIGHT SOMEONE HAD TO CLEAN UP THE MESS AND WHO BETTER THAN THOSE WHO CREATED THE FRANKESTEIN?

CHEERIO AND CHECKMATE PARTNER!

Is this NOT your profile as posted on this site?
Date of Birth: June 20, 1965 Age: 41 Country: India Military Status: Active duty Rank/Title: Lieutenant Colonel Branch: Infantry Time in Service (TIS): 18 Interests: Mil History Gender: Male

According to THAT profile posted on this here site you are infact an LtCol?
Or are you denying writing that intro?

Yes, your guys were in Congo back in the 60,s, so where our forces...BTW, you forgot to mention in the post about your glorious officer killed in Congo during the 60,s that the GRG that destroyed the armoured vehicles was Swedish, fiered by the men of 10:th mech inf coy (SWE)..
And that the general inspector responsible for deploying UN troops to Congo back then were Swede Dag Hammarskiöld.
I know one person that was actually deployed to Congo during the UN mission there.
According to that gentleman (Sgt Lars Gunnar Björklund) the Irish and Swedish battalions bore the brunt of that mission..(care to comment Sir?)
But I was talking about the current conflict that is being handled by MONUC and between the MONUC forces an EU task force (Operation ARTEMIS).

Sweden were never overrun by the Germans during WWII mate, Sweden did however reinforce the Finns and stopped the worlds largest army cold,I´ll give you a hint (red flag).. check facts again.
Oh and NATO wargames? We are part of PFP and a few other peace organizations.
Sweden have never been a part of NATO..Check facts again Sir..

With regards to Afghanistan..OEF forces are in country hunting terrorists, It´s a joint venture between NATO countries and a few neutral ones operating under the UN selfdefence codes.
This force is independent from the ISAF forces incountry..You should have seen that if you had checked the links I provided you with...Sir..

You have been fighting rag tag bands of Pakistanis at your border?
Wow, you are da man Sir!
Given the intensity of that conflict you must be the go to guy on all things military.
Kashmir...was it ever cleared up to what country it belongs?

What I have done or are doing in my military career is not for you to question, nor will I answer that before you put in an official request (and get it granted).
I´d be more then happy to give you a demonstration of my current work..

As you have NO, ZERO experience from the African continent according to yourself, arguing with you is even less rewarding then with somalia dude since atleast he has a clue about what he´s talking about..Although I personally feel his views are slanted.

You have nothing to offer on the subject...Sir..
But when in for 15 years you should have known better then to try.

//KJ.

I am not gona even respond to ppl like Bulldogg that are here to stoke tension, their pure hatred and contempt for others is evident in his comment in calling Africa "THE DARK CONTINENT."

Now let me get back to the relevant topic here, I am not asking for sympathy for nations in Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Carribean who were oppressed, slaughthered, their natural resources stolen and their nations made subservient. I know the West is not bad don't get me wrong, I know their is many God fearing, respectable, and good people who sincerely care about others and by all mean I am not trying to discredit the West, I was discussing the mistakes they have made in the past and that they continue to make today in the form of liberating a country because they can no longer in today world outright colonize a country so they are occuppying countries in the guise of other excuses.

You cannot say in the time frame of 60 years things will heal because its not that easy when those former colonizers support dictators in many of those nations so that a unfriendly regime doesn't take over, and those dictators in turn think they have free reign and turn around and oppress their citizens.

60 years doesn't begin to address the many problems the colonizers left behind like partitioning countries and enslaving millions in the process. Just like the Jewish people haven't forgotten the many horrible problems Hitler and his henchmen committed against them.

You say that the people that suffered under imperialism like Africans and Asians should forget and move on like its that easy, but when Jewish people who suffered under the Nazis still seek compensation and justice its ok. So let me ask you why haven't the West compensated these nations who suffered under imperialism. You can argue that the West provides loans and finances, but those aren't compensations they are loans with interest.

They need to compensate these nations financially, publically apologize and give these nations their territorries they carved away from back. Than you have the right to say they should move on, bit don't say that when you haven't done none of that.

Originally Posted by Somalia

I am not gona even respond to ppl like Bulldogg that are here to stoke tension, their pure hatred and contempt for others is evident in his comment in calling Africa "THE DARK CONTINENT."

He actually borrowed that from a book title dude..

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Dark-C.../dp/0486256677

And that´s just vol 1..

The rest I will answer later, but right now I got better things to do..

//KJ.

WELL KJ I DO APOLOGISE ABOUT THE AD PART. I MISTOOK THAT FOR AIR DEFENCE AND NOT ACTIVE DUTIES SINCE IN OUR GLOSSARY OF MIL TERMS AD READS AIR DEFNCE AND NOT ACTIVE DUTIES. AS FOR THE REST, PERIOD! I GUESS I AM TOO OLD TO ENTER ARGUMENTS AND SLING MUD. SORRY! MY FACTS ABOUT YOUR COUNTRIES MIL ACTIVIES BEARS CATCHING UP BUT ATLEAST YOU EDUCATED ME ABOUT IT. POINT IS ONE HARDLY HEARS ABOUT MIL ACTIVITIES RELATED ABOUT SWEDEN. TRADITIONALLLY I GUESS YOU GUYS WERE MOSTLY NEUTRAL. BUT YOU ARE WRONG WHEN YOU SAY THAT I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

AND I WISH YOU HAD FACED THE MILITANCY ACTIVITIES THAT WE FACE EVERYDAY. EVEN VISITING GENERALS FROM THE WEST HAVE SHOWN THEIR INCREDULITY WHEN VISITING KASHMIR AND GETTING A FIRST HAND BRIEF ABOUT THE TYPE OF COUNTER-INURGENCY BATTLE WE ARE FIGHTING AND IN SOME OF THE WORLD'S TOUGHEST TERRAIN. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU REALLY BE KNOWING ABOUT SUCH THINGS SINCE YOU APPEAR NOT MORE THAN A FANCIFUL " CHOCOLATE CREAM SOLDIER" .

CIAO!

QUOTE KJ):Because SOME tribes ALWAYS wants more huh? UNQUOTE

BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THE TRIBE OF WHITE BROTHERS AND THEIR CHIEF WANTS TO HOG IT ALL.


BEST OF LUCK.

QUOTE: June 17th, 2006 Post 6 LeEnfield vbmenu_register("postmenu_228306", true);
Tribuni Angusticlavii



Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,618 Country:



Milbucks :
Gear



I often feel they Indian people do not get the credit that they deserve for that they did during the two World Wars. They recruited the largest ever volunteer army every seen, and their troops fought with great distinction in Africa, Italy, and all over Asia. They won a large number of VC's Britain's highest medal for bravery, also they fought in Branches of the services and were a great credit to their country.
__________________
LeEnfield Rides again




UNQUOTE
FOR THE BENEFIT OF KJ AND ALL LIKE MINDED

Originally Posted by roverin

WELL KJ I DO APOLOGISE ABOUT THE AD PART. I MISTOOK THAT FOR AIR DEFENCE AND NOT ACTIVE DUTIES SINCE IN OUR GLOSSARY OF MIL TERMS AD READS AIR DEFNCE AND NOT ACTIVE DUTIES. AS FOR THE REST, PERIOD! I GUESS I AM TOO OLD TO ENTER ARGUMENTS AND SLING MUD. SORRY! MY FACTS ABOUT YOUR COUNTRIES MIL ACTIVIES BEARS CATCHING UP BUT ATLEAST YOU EDUCATED ME ABOUT IT. POINT IS ONE HARDLY HEARS ABOUT MIL ACTIVITIES RELATED ABOUT SWEDEN. TRADITIONALLLY I GUESS YOU GUYS WERE MOSTLY NEUTRAL. BUT YOU ARE WRONG WHEN YOU SAY THAT I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

AND I WISH YOU HAD FACED THE MILITANCY ACTIVITIES THAT WE FACE EVERYDAY. EVEN VISITING GENERALS FROM THE WEST HAVE SHOWN THEIR INCREDULITY WHEN VISITING KASHMIR AND GETTING A FIRST HAND BRIEF ABOUT THE TYPE OF COUNTER-INURGENCY BATTLE WE ARE FIGHTING AND IN SOME OF THE WORLD'S TOUGHEST TERRAIN. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU REALLY BE KNOWING ABOUT SUCH THINGS SINCE YOU APPEAR NOT MORE THAN A FANCIFUL " CHOCOLATE CREAM SOLDIER" .

CIAO!

No worries on the mix up Sir, everyone can make an honest misstake.
---------------------------------------------------------

We are neutral, that means we chose our own fights.
My goverment, therfor our people have deemed it important to partake in both the "WOT" and the rebuilding of the nation of Afghanistan.
That Sir is why we are there.

Furthermore Sir, It was not my intention to sound like I do not respect Indian soldiers.
I have never worked with your boys and I do not claim to have done so.
Infact I have heard by mates that NSG have some good Teams, esp. the SAG groups.
The only slightly negative I have heard about those Teams is that in some cases their equipment is unreliable/old ie:Mi 17 helo,s?
The rumor around here was that they were about to upgrade?

My comment about you never having been deployed to Africa was that I asked you and you didn´t answer.
That in itself could mean that you don´t want to discuss it.
If you would like to share some of your experiences on the African continent please do so.
I´d be very interested to hear what you have to say about it Sir.
How would you for example like to come to terms with the problem of warring factions using child soldiers?
Or how would you want to combat the drug problems in the region? (That would be a direct force protection issue for any UN soldiers deployed into that AOR)
Or how do you invisioning the African nations solving their problems without outside help?
There are currently Swedes deployed to three different countries on that continent and I would like nothing more then to be able to bring them home.
How do you suggest stopping one tribes soldiers/freedom fighters you might call them from raping a girl 50 times just because she walks down the wrong road at the wrong time, the last couple of times using their AK 47,s so she will have a hard time reproducing?
How do you invisioning preventing the Lendu and Hema slaughtering eachother by the hundreds of thousends without western forces providing a safe haven in Bunia, or keeping the Airfield at Kindu open and safe Sir?

Any insight into the problems we face in those regions would be greatly apreciated Sir.


And both you and I know that impressing generals is easy, all you have to do is open fire close to their head and look confident in what you are doing.. even when you as in my case are just lucky..

The Kashmir conflict is surely very gruesome and I´d hope you didn´t have to fight it at all.
You are the SME on that subject since you have been fighting it for some 14 odd years.

I have met some Pakistani soldiers out in the world and thus far I am unimpressed.
Could you please enlighten us to why it has taken a shitload of years to gain very little success with regards to Kashmir?
Is it the nuclear threat that keeps you from going in and doing your job?
Or something else?
UW tactics should otherwise be right up your alley after having such extensive experience at it?

The big white chief huh?
Well that comment will have to stand for you Sir.

All I can say is I get my orders from OPIL and I carry them out to the best of my abillities.

And no, I don´t even like choclate cream..I am partial to gummybears Sir.
During my extensive research I have also learnt not to judge a gummybear by it´s apearance..

Have a very SF day Sir.

Originally Posted by Somalia

Now let me get back to the relevant topic here, I am not asking for sympathy for nations in Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Carribean who were oppressed, slaughthered, their natural resources stolen and their nations made subservient. I know the West is not bad don't get me wrong, I know their is many God fearing, respectable, and good people who sincerely care about others and by all mean I am not trying to discredit the West, I was discussing the mistakes they have made in the past and that they continue to make today in the form of liberating a country because they can no longer in today world outright colonize a country so they are occuppying countries in the guise of other excuses.

You cannot say in the time frame of 60 years things will heal because its not that easy when those former colonizers support dictators in many of those nations so that a unfriendly regime doesn't take over, and those dictators in turn think they have free reign and turn around and oppress their citizens.

60 years doesn't begin to address the many problems the colonizers left behind like partitioning countries and enslaving millions in the process. Just like the Jewish people haven't forgotten the many horrible problems Hitler and his henchmen committed against them.

You say that the people that suffered under imperialism like Africans and Asians should forget and move on like its that easy, but when Jewish people who suffered under the Nazis still seek compensation and justice its ok. So let me ask you why haven't the West compensated these nations who suffered under imperialism. You can argue that the West provides loans and finances, but those aren't compensations they are loans with interest.

They need to compensate these nations financially, publically apologize and give these nations their territorries they carved away from back. Than you have the right to say they should move on, bit don't say that when you haven't done none of that.

So what African nation do you feel the west have occupied recently?

And if the west supports dictators why not overthrow them?
But doing so means going after the ones incharge, not chopping off random people,s arms.
As dictators are not elected noone can say that isn´t the citizens rights.
HOWEVER and this is important, you can never condone genocide, whoever is behind it, even if they do happen to call themselves "freedom fighters".
Not even if they suffered very much 60 some years ago.
I hope we can agree on atleast that?

//KJ.

Originally Posted by Somalia

I am not gona even respond to ppl like Bulldogg that are here to stoke tension, their pure hatred and contempt for others is evident in his comment in calling Africa "THE DARK CONTINENT."

Look at the other continents and then tell me wtf YOU would call it?

I have nothing against people of any colour. I hate crybabies who blame everyone else for their problems.